Lizzie's Meat Loaf

icghosts · Post by **icghosts** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:19 am

I postsed this once before but here it comes again:

Lizzie's Meat Loaf"

1 lb steak
1/2 lb pork steak
1 egg
1 small onion
3 soda crackers, herbs, salt and pepper

Grease tin, cover loaf well with hot water & bake about one hour.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:23 am

I thought I recognized your name. Welcome back!

The meat loaf doesn't sound too appetizing. Do we know when this was written, before or after the tragedy?

icghosts · Post by **icghosts** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:42 am

I imagine Lizzie might have cooked this after the murders. Can you see her cooking this in the kitchen at Maplecroft

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:55 am

It's hard to imagine Lizzie as being handy around the kitchen. Or any domestic chores for that matter.

I also think it was most likely at Maplecroft where she may have tried a few things.

It also raises the question of how Lizzie ran things at Maplecroft. Was she a tough hands-on task-master or a kind mistress delegating responsibilities to her servants and essentially letting them run things? Of that we know little or nothing. We do know that they were paid well.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:12 pm

Actually... That meat loaf recipe does not look too bad.... Meatloaf seldom excites me but I occasionally make it. Thayne's mother made it when he was at home and he liked it-- and sometimes yearns for it. I will try Lizzie's recipe. I imagine the steak can be hamburger and the pork steak sausage... Perhaps she ground quality cuts of meat?

Are soda crackers the same as saltines?? 3?? Only 3? I always thought the point of making meat into a loaf was to stretch the meat to theretofore unheard of proportions....

I would have to say this recipe was from Maplecroft where there were less people eating. At 92 there would have been 5-- Unless Lizzie made it special only for her and Emma after the A's had already eaten.

This recipe would not yield much....

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:32 pm

If I recall correctly Auds, soda crackers are not the same as saltines. (I have eaten them before but it has been years. :lol)

I did find, however, a 70 year old recipe for making them.

Soda Crackers

4 Cup Sifted bread flour
2 Cup Warm water
1/2 Cake yeast
2 Tablespoon Warm water
1 Teaspoon Baking soda
1 Tablespoon Salt
1/3 Cup Melted lard*
3 More cups sifted flour
.
Sift the flour once and measure out 4 cups. Then soften the yeast in 1/4 cup warm water. Combine with the remaining water and add to the flour. Beat well. Cover this mixture and let stand in a warm place overnight. In the morning add baking soda and salt dissolved in 2 tablespoons warm water. Add lard and beat well. Then add the other 3 cups of flour gradually, mixing until smooth after each addition. Cover and let rise again until double in volume.

Then turn on to a lightly floured board and knead until the dough is smooth and elastic and not sticky to touch. Divide into small portions and roll each out into a thin sheet. Cut with a cookie cutter and prick each one well with a fork. Bake in an oven about 500F. until a delicate brown.

Capper's Weekly 7 April 1934.
http://www.aliciasrecipes.com/bread-muf ... recipe.htm

*Shortening should be an appropriate subtitute for lard.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:18 am

I always thought soda crackers were the same as Saltines. That was interesting! Do they sell "soda crackers" in the grocery store? Or nowadays do they mean Saltines? Doug, do you remember how they differed from a Saltine?

Audrey, what do you think is meant in the recipe where it says to cover well with water? That has always stumped me.

I believe this recipe was unearthed by the FRHS and it was online on there before they re-did their website.

Great question - how did Lizzie treat her help? I think she enjoyed being the mistress of Maplecroft and played the role to the hilt, at least publicly. I don't think the servants ran things, unless they were told by her how to do something and once learning her wishes worked fairly independently.

She remembered them in her will - all of them, I think.

Did she leave some $ to some of the servants' children? I think that shows that she was genuinely interested in them (the servants) as people and talked with them casually. I get the feeling that she helped them out whenever there was a need.

I don't recall any servants leaving Maplecroft saying she was a bad boss. She did give it to that guy who was doing the - what was it - brick work? He wasn't doing it how she wanted and she had a huge fit. He wasn't one of her regular employees, tho. That incident reminded me of her mother coming out in her - how it was said Sarah had such a quick bad temper.

But I imagine back then her being a woman - and a single woman who had to make all the decisions about the home as a husband would - maybe the guy treated her like he knew best and didn't take her seriously as one to give him directions. (I don't think Emma gave orders to people. She had to consult with others to make the decision to move out.)

I remember reading, probably in Rebello, of one of her female employees being ill and Lizzie being concerned and visiting her. The woman died. It's funny there aren't any memoirs left by any of her help ... or is there?

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:53 am

I wouldn't think it would have that meat loaf "rind" on it--- the water would stop that... I am wondering if that water is meant to keep it moist since the meat cuts had less fat on them than they do today. It might not work!

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:55 am

There's a cracker we use at our reenactments that sounds like it might be the thing. They're called something like Crown Pilot Crackers, I think made by Nabisco, but we find our supermarket carries only a few boxes on a low shelf. They are larger and thicker than saltines and look something like the hardtack biscuits that were eaten by soldiers and sailors long ago. (But they're nowhere near as hard and bland as hardtack, which was basically flour a little salt and water.)

The Crown Pilot and the similar Uneeda Biscuits are the kind of old-fashioned crackers that you'd have found sold out of cracker barrels in old general stores.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:13 pm

"(I don't think Emma gave orders to people. She had to consult with others to make the decision to move out.)"--Augusta

I think Emma had the gumption to do just about anything.
There is the fact that she "raised" Lizzie (think how hard that must have been?); she harboured bad feelings toward Abby and probably showed it (garnering her father's irritation at a unhappy homelife); she did go away on vacation that summer; she did fight for Lizzie at the trial by telling half-truths or falsehoods or whatever one wants to call it and painting herself as the family thorn rather than Lizzie, essentially taking on a bad-looking daughter image to the community to give Lizzie a break; she lived alone in that murder house for almost a year after Lizzie's arrest (which would involve lots of decisions) and had to hire a new servant

; for all we know she hired Jennings on Friday- she filed for probate, became administrator of their father's estate; dragged the police over to the house because of the damage of a broken window; and Emma is the one who moved out. Lizzie stayed put but Emma became almost a vagabond- that takes a lot of strength to move around a lot after her first forty years of merely moving from Ferry Street to Second Street.

Witness Statements
Chase
44
"Fall River, September 20, 1892. I this day visited the Borden house under instructions from the City Marshal. I saw Miss Emma Borden, and she went down cellar with me, and showed me a window in the northeast corner room nearest to the barn, and next north of the cellar door, which she wanted to have fastened up, and wanted me to note the condition that it was in before anything was done. I found one light of glass broke in the upper sash, the lower sash bad the appearance of being pushed in, and raised up about five inches."

I think she was a shrewd business woman as well, as she seemed to have more money at the end of her life than Lizzie did- isn't that who *Wins*?

Actually, maybe the difference in their money left might be that one sold their half of the A.J. Borden Bldg.?

Joyce · Post by **Joyce** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:00 pm

I think the most telling thing about Emma is the
scene in the jail, when Lizzie says "oh you have given me away" and Lizzie turns her back to Emma
yet Emma sits there for hours with her.
Nancie

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:18 pm

"Doug, do you remember how they differed from a Saltine?" asks Augusta...

Offhand, I sure don't, except to say that (at least as far as I can tell) soda crackers have a distinct flavor all their own.

I did trip over a recipe for Saltine crackers though (even a saltine cracker cake!

)

The saltine cracker dough recipe is:

2 c. flour
1 tsp. salt
2/3 c. milk
2 tbsp. butter
1/2 tsp. baking soda

Combine the dry ingredients, cut in the butter, then stir in the milk. Round into a ball and knead for few strokes. Divide dough into several pieces and roll out very thin on a floured board. Lay sheets on ungreased cookie sheet. Sprinkle with salt and prick with a fork. Cut into 1 1/2 inch squares with a sharp knife or pizza cutter. Bake at 375 degrees for 10 to 12 minutes or until lightly browned.

http://www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,161,1561 ... 00,00.html

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:33 pm

Joyce @ Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:00 pm wrote:I think the most telling thing about Emma is the
scene in the jail, when Lizzie says "oh you have given me away" and Lizzie turns her back to Emma
yet Emma sits there for hours with her.
Nancie

Could she have sat there thinking "listen here Lizzie... You think I am leaving? HA! You juts lay there staring at that wall.... I am going to sit here as long as I want to" ???

(** knows what the "J" stands for**)

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:53 am

Soda Crackers

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Breads

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 Cups Flour
1 Teaspoon Salt
1/2 Teaspoon Baking Soda
1/4 Cup Butter
1/2 Cup Sour Milk
1 Large Egg

Sift the flour, salt and baking soda into a bowl. Cut in the butter
until very fine. Add the milk and egg and mix to make a stiff dough.
Kenad thoroughly and then roll the dough very thin. Cut into squares or
rounds and place on lightly buttered cookie sheets. Prick the crackers
with a fork and then bake in a 400 degree oven for 10 minutes or until
very lightly browned. If desired, crackers may be sprinkled with coarse
salt.

http://www.recipe-source.com/munchies/s ... c0288.html

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:30 pm

Well.... We tried Lizzie's meat loaf.

I think my family would have preferred 3 day old spoiled mutton....

Lilly had two words for it.... Icky Pooh.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:43 pm

Thanks for the warning Audrey. I will know never to give it a try myself. Well we now know that Lizzie may not have been the greatest cook in the world

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 1:26 am

Did they have ketchup *back then*?

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:26 pm

you are brave to try the meatloaf Audrey! we are trying to come up with something for our family
Christmas all together won't be till the day after.
and my son, the cook and creative one, has to work
all day. Ha my daughter in law and I are laughing
because we don't cook or know any recipes,
we both hate cooking. My Rich sister said she will just bring a catered dinner, spiral ham and all. Ugh
we don't like that idea either, we want to make something, the only thing I know to make is Shepard's Pie. Any ideas from anyone for simple
things for non-cooks?

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:26 pm

If neither you nor your daughter cook, Nancie, the best solution is the rich sister's catered dinner most definitely!

Or pick out...three or four simple things, like roast chicken, mashed potatoes, boxed dressing mix, a veggie or two, tubed biscuits or rolls, and whatever kind of Mrs. Smith's pie that you like, and have at it!

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 8:50 pm

Did they have ketchup *back then*?

Ketchup
The weird thing about ketchup is that it’s been around for centruries,
but not until pretty recently were there any tomatoes in it!
In the 17th century, the Chinese made a thick sauce of spices
and pickled fish called ke-tsiap. Its popularity spread to Malaysia,
where it was known as kechap.
In the early 18th century, British sailors tried the Malaysian sauce, liked it,
and returned home with samples of what they mistakenly labeled ketchup.
Trying to duplicate the gooey relish but having little idea as to its ingredients,
English cooks created sauces using such things as mushrooms, walnuts, and cucumbers.
Not until it reached America, sometime around 1790,
did tomatoes enter ketchup. With yet another change of spelling,
the first-known recipe for “tomata catsup” appeared in a 1792 cookbook.
Bu the mid-1800s, it had become an everyday condiment
on American tables. It was known then, as it is today, as ketchup or catsup.
Both spellings are considered correct, though ketchup is preferred
because of its word history.
Until 1876, ketchup was always homemade and took hours to prepare.
Then a German-American chef and businessman entered the picture,
offering the first mass-produced bottled ketchup.
The man was Henry Heinz.

From this site: http://kimnamhee.com/bbs/zboard.php?id= ... tory&no=35

Nancie, how about making some Chicken Marsala? Its an easy and fairly elegant dish. Theres plenty of recipes for it online, its just a matter of finding the Marsala wine, thats not always easy.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:26 pm

Ok Nancie....

First of all... I do want to go on record about spiral cut hams--- They are usually cut too thin and catered ham is never a good idea-- it is hard to keep it hot unless you keep it wet and, well, YUK!

The first part of this recipe is knowing that you and Tristy can do it! Also-- know that it will impress your sister's socks off-- and everyone will eat it and ignore her ham! (The one you are going to let her bring anyway!)

Go to the grocery store and buy:

1 3-4lb Beef Tenderloin.
1 Package Knorr's Bernaise Sauce
4-5 large potatoes (unless you have some--any type will do)
1 package shredded swiss cheese
1 small carton buttermilk.

I am assuming you have eggs in the house! If not-- buy some of them too! Also-- you will need some nutmeg.
The tenderloin isn't going to be cheap-- but we want to impress people with your fabu cooking skills-- not your thrift-- right?

Make sure you buy it soon enough to when you want to cook it so that you do not have to freeze it.

Put it on either a broiling pan or a jelly roll pan.

Rub it down good with some olive oil and then salt and pepper it. (If you happen to have large kosher style salt--use it, but don't buy it special if you do not have it)

Bake it in a HOT! 425° F oven. Roast it for about 30-35 minutes (Or until it temps at about 130° F) and take it out of the oven and immediately move it to a cutting board and loosely cover it with foil.

Let is sit for 10-15 minutes.... (The meat will continue to cook a bit--temping out at a final temp of 140-145° F)

Prepare the Bernaise Sauce as per the package instructions.

When the meat has set for 10 minutes, slice it into little medallions and pour the sauce over it...

You have just made a KILLER Chateaubriand.

You can serve this fabu meat with Gratin Dauphinois!

Peel and slice the potatoes as thin as you can-- But do not stress about cutting them super thin. Just do the best you can! (I lose patience and end up having the first potato razor thin and the next 3 or 4 get thicker as I go! I settled on doing them all medium!)

Layer some of the slices in the bottom of any casserole dish-- even a glass style 8X8" pan will work. Sprinkle some of the cheese on top and then more potatoes/cheese until done.

Break 2-3 eggs and whisk them until frothy and stir in the buttermilk (about a pint) and a shake of nutmeg. (Careful with the nutmeg-- it is strong flavored-- you really only need a smidge) Pour this over the potatoes/cheese layers and bake it with the meat. It should be done about the same time-- But cover it if they start to look too brown on the top.

These potatoes are about as French as potatoes can get! Did you all know nutmeg is probably the most common spice used in France besides salt/pepper?

Serve any veggie you like..... Any dessert.

Maybe your sister will bring pies!

But-- you will be the hit of the day with this easier than anyone would ever guess menu!

They will honestly think you slaved all day!

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:01 pm

Audrey! that sounds SO good! I copy/pasted the
recipe, I actually think we could make that, it doesn't sound too hard. Tristy really wants to impress Waylon (my son) and I told her this could
Do the Trick, we are going to be brave, thank you! (Rich sister offered to buy the meat!)

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:35 pm

Of course you can do it Nancie... And it will taste every bit as good as it would if it was prepared in the kitchen of the Ritz in Paris....

Joyeux Noel New Friend...

kiss your handsome son for me!

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:02 pm

Audrey, my daughter in law Tristy asked "do you
put the meat on top of the potatoes or serve separately?" She thinks Waylon will be so impressed with this!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:32 pm

Yes that sounds good!
Yay Audrey!

Nancie, if Audrey doesn't answer right away- I think it's a "No" on putting the meat on top of the potatoes.
The meat has its own suace- the potatoes their own flavor of cheese.
They sound like potatoes Au Gratin or Scalloped potatoes.
Homemade ones are wonderful!

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:41 pm

Put them on the side....

another trick... If you have large sized muffin tins bake the potatoes in it! (Pam or grease the He** out of it-- but it works!) When you turn them out you have individual sized servings for each person!

Just layer as usual and pour the liquid to cover. They look nice when serving-- But only if you are planning to serve plated food and not pass bowls.

I always plate the food at my house-- less dishes!

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:25 pm

oh jeez.. Audrey are you doing anything next Tuesday, maybe you could stop over and uh help
us thru this? Muffin Tins? I have one frying pan in
my cabinet and a big bowl thing my mother gave me. (for what?) Really, I don't cook! But my son
has kitchen stuff, we Will get this meal done and
it will taste wonderful (you promise?)

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:27 pm

If I lived near you I would be happy to come do it!

Yes, it will work... And you know what else?

You can make those potatoes in one of those disposable tin-type pans they sell for less than $1 at Wally....

Trust me on this... The end result FAR exceeds the effort.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:13 am

Kat - I was glad to be reminded of those things you posted that Emma did do. I think Lizzie said that Emma was the one who got Jennings retained. And then there's that line I think Emma spoke (unless I've got "The Legend..." movie on my mind, and she did say it in that) - when they come and tell Lizzie she is suspected, Emma replies, "We tried to keep it from her as long as we could."

Emma getting up on the stand is a tremendous act. And she seemed to sail right thru it.

There seems to be this Strong Emma, and then the way perhaps she wanted to be known as - withdrawn, quiet, nondescript.

Yeah, she was the one who moved out of Maplecroft. But she didn't make the decision on her own. She needed the support of Rev. Buck to come to the conclusion. I thought that may have shown a weakness in her, that she needed his support to make the decision or to act on it. It must have been pretty upsetting, what Lizzie did or allowed to happen, to have Emma want to move out and the sisters never speaking to each other again. That's another thing - Emma never spoke to Lizzie again, just as Lizzie never spoke to Emma again. Both showing strong, if stubborn, character.

Thanks for posting all the soda cracker recipes. I will never make them. What trouble. It's interesting, tho. And interesting to learn of other crackers that were/are out there, such as Fairhaven Guy posted.

Sounds like a great dish, Nancie! I hope you let us know how it goes over. Thanks for posting it, Audrey. I think I'll copy that one down, too.