Photos of "Lizzie" for sale

[augusta]

I don't know, but to me this photo for sale on eBay now looks obviously nothing like Lizzie. And the text describing it sounds so made up.

What do you think?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-ORIGINA ... 4d23356a3c

And there is this "Lizzie" photo up for bids as well. Note that both are by the same seller. Again, to me this looks nothing like Lizzie:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-ORIGINA ... 4d2335d36f

Listed as an "original photograph", when the seller filled in details eBay asked, it asked "Photo or reprint?" and the person said "Photo reprint". ???

Unless I missed something, this listing sounds knowingly bogus. I am amazed if anyone fell for these. I think it is awful that some people try to take advantage of Bordenites by doing stuff like this. If you think I'm wrong, tell me.

[debbiediablo]

No way is that Lizzie in either of them. Although I can see why someone could be fooled by the first one; the second is totally not even close. Aside from a wider jaw, eyes that are not correctly tilted, lips that are more straight than round, wider nose that isn't pointy enough, differences in hairline, and huge hands...this is a too Thin Lizzie, with apologies to the band.

[debbiediablo]

I'm not seeing the photo reprint...where is that located.

[twinsrwe]

I agree, Augusta, neither photo is of our Lizzie. However, I'm sure someone will believe these photos are the real thing and spend their money foolishly!

[debbiediablo]

I wrote the seller a note, very nicely explaining that these photos clearly are not Lizzie to anyone who is moderately familiar with her. A person who is interested in the truth would have pursued the discussion. This is what I got back:


Hi,

Thanks for your opinion. The pictures speak for themselves.

Best regards
Betty



Followed shortly thereafter by this:

Hi,
These picture's are from the 19th C and in my opinion they look just like Lizzie Borden. They are untouched, original, and from the right time period. People can decide for themselves with their own eyes. There is nothing hidden here.

Best regards
Betty

[augusta]

Where is the 'photo reprint'? There isn't one! These listings don't even make sense. In both descriptions the seller says he/she is selling an original photograph. So there is no print of them that he/she is selling. (I say he/she because now I don't even believe 'her' name is Betty!)

Debbie, GOOD FOR YOU in writing the seller. No, this goes beyond "Well, in MY opinion I think it's Lizzie Borden so I am an honest seller." There is NO proof, of course, because neither picture is her. Yeah, those are "cabinet cards" from the 1800's, most likely, but that's where their descriptions end. And are BOTH of the photos supposed to be Lizzie Borden??

How about that story about "Auntie Lizzie" that went with the first photo? Can we use the word "liar" here?

Does someone here want to contact eBay and complain to get those yanked off? I would do it, but I am too mad. I am sick of people like this who try to take advantage of we who are interested in the Borden case. Their flippant comments to you, Debbie, sounded cocky and disrespectful.

I wonder how this seller came to get the acceptable positive feedbacks noted?

[debbiediablo]

Caveat Emptor. She is being clever by saying she "thinks" these are Lizzie...but do your own research. Her responsibility for their authenticity ends there. This is what I wrote:

Hi Betty - I am a semi-knowledgeable student of Lizzie Borden, and there's no doubt in my mind that neither of these pictures is Lizzie. If they were, the value would be far beyond what you're asking. If they're not, which they aren't, then they have no true value. Lizzie had no nieces and nephews, and she was born in 1860, the year the Civil War began. That would make her 154 years old and her nieces and nephews somewhere around 120 years old. Never mind that she had one older sister Emma who never married. I strongly suggest that you take down this listing. $20 is not worth two irate eBay buyers because sooner or later these pictures will be denied provenance. I wish you the best, but truly, these are not Lizzie. To someone who knows her even a little bit, there isn't much resemblance. Which is unfortunate as the Bordenites of the world would love two new photos of her! - Deb

She may not have known when she listed them, but she damn well knows now. I doubt I'm the first or the last. She started posting questions and comments but that ended abruptly.

[augusta]

Wow, Debbie. That was a very nice note you sent her! I could not have been as cordial as you. It's so obviously a scam.

There are two or so other not-Lizzie pictures, and some people think they are her and have included them in stuff they've published. So it's not only illegal what she/he's doing, a person who believes those or one of those is real could really add more untruths to the Borden story.

That's one of the beauties of this website, that we strive to find the truths and sweep out the legends.

[PattiG157]

I don't think either of these pics look like Lizzie. In fact, the second one looks like a man.

[debbiediablo]

Yes, if someone loses $20 it's no great loss except for the annoyance at purchasing something fake. I have an authentic news photo of Pearl Hines Shine, and it's extremely well documented. (Pearl married and murdered her husband in less than a week, right after he deeded his farm to her!!! the doggone fool...Old Dan Shine murder... http://iagenweb.org/boards/clayton/docu ... ead=140971 ) The Shine murder site isn't too far from where I live, and no one local will venture into Mossy Glen as it's supposedly haunted by several spirits. A beautiful valley except there's no noise from the usual forest inhabitants...and then the mist comes in... My concern is also that these photos will somehow get mixed into reality. As much as I enjoy the entertainment of new and sometimes far-fetched theories, I prefer facts to factoids when the story is finally written...or, in this case, viewed. But I'm not convinced what she's doing is illegal...just seriously unethical.

Yes, Patti, the man thing crossed my mind, too. Look at those BIG hands! Now this woman could handle an 8 lb axe!!!

[debbiediablo]

No one could mistake them as the same person....as Possum pointed out: look at the ears.

Separated At Birth--NOT!.png

I sent this to the seller...knowing I'm right can be a problem for me...

[Curryong]

Neither is anything like our Lizzie Borden, but somebody who doesn't know much about the Borden case will buy them. What's the old saying about a fool and his/her money being soon parted?

[twinsrwe]

Debbie: Your note to the seller of these photos was very kind; I hope she realizes that you are correct, and takes these lists down.

Augusta: I agree, the members of this forum do strive to find the truths of the Borden murders, and make every attempt to sweep the untruths under the rug.

Patti: Welcome back; it is good to see you posting again!!!

[augusta]

Patti, yes, that second one does look like a man and at first I thought it was.

I've seen a real, original photo of one of the characters in the Borden case taken of him in a dress and hat. I've read that in the 1890's Fall River did not make a big thing over a person being gay, which personally I think is great. I don't think it should be anybody's business. (I don't know if my source was true or not, but it seemed to be.) I suppose that person in photo #2 could be a man.

Now both photographs are offering Free Shipping, since Debbie wrote the seller.

The reason I think those postings are illegal is that the seller is knowingly selling both these items as being Lizzie. I believe the seller is knowingly doing this. I think it would come under "fraud".

[BOBO]

I don't think either of these pics look like Lizzie. In fact, the second one looks like a man.

OFF TOPIC.... Man or woman, that second pic would run a buzzard off a gut wagon.

[debbiediablo]

I don't think either of these pics look like Lizzie. In fact, the second one looks like a man.

OFF TOPIC.... Man or woman, that second pic would run a buzzard off a gut wagon.

This is the first thing I've read online this morning, and I choked on my coffee!!

[debbiediablo]

$9.99, the starting bid for the non-Lizzies, appears to be the asking price for cabinet photos of that era where the subjects are people off the street.

[irina]

It's probably legal. Seller is fishing for a buyer. I have seen worse on e-bay, with elaborate stories attached. Fortunately on those the seller didn't have a good reputation and the buyer was cautioned to be careful. One in particular claimed to have had access to the estate or a historically famous person. Somewhere there was a comment questioning that. Buyer beware!

[debbiediablo]

BOBO introduced yet another eBay Borden fake in Stay to Tea.

[twinsrwe]

I see both photos have been sold!

[debbiediablo]

I see both photos have been sold!

Yep, and the $666.99 Happy Birthday postcard is still there despite it being a month past Lizzie's birthday. Question for Augusta: was Lizzie ever involved with the Music Department of the E.S. Brown Co to the extent that she would've received mail there? The seller tells me it's "obvious" that the sender mistook our Lizzie's birthday by exactly one month.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTH-1909-Post- ... TQ:US:1123