Lizzie Borden Society Forum

http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2014/12/m ... rformance/

Isn't this what Lizzie was purported to play?

WOW, it's the first time that I hear such a musical instrument. Did Lizzie play it?

Hurdy gurdies were very popular in the 19th century especially among street performers. I've never heard of Lizzie actually playing one though. I believe she often played the piano, and in later life people would give performances in front of her house on barrel organs etc, and she would pay them. In Britain a hurdy gurdy was often an interchangeable name for a small barrel organ.

No Franz, I'm afraid that it is Mr. Martin's imagination running off on him. Which can be a good thing, you understand.

If Lizzie did play anythiny it was probably the piano, since they had one in the house.

When I was growing up everyone was into Bob Dylan. I was into Donavan. He had a much nicer voice and without the arrogance.

At the time Donavan had a song out called the Hurdy Gurdy Man. It was a big hit for him and went to number 5 on the American charts at the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHV8Wzldlck

I thought there was some report of a hurdy gurdy being rolled up to Maplecroft...

I hang my head in shame for not at least a quick Google search....

Aamartin wrote:I thought there was some report of a hurdy gurdy being rolled up to Maplecroft...

I hang my head in shame for not at least a quick Google search....

Don't hang your head in shame, Anthony. You are correct; see where I highlighted the sentences in red regarding Lizzie and the Hurdy Gurdy.


On Jun 18, 2010, Kat posted:


The Montreal Gazette. August 5, 1899

THE BORDEN MYSTERY.

Lizzie Borden’s Quiet Life With Her
Sister Emma.

[Fall River Cor. New York World.]
Next Friday will be the seventh anniversary of the murder of Mr. and Mrs. Andrew J. Borden. It will be recalled that this aged couple were killed by an assassin with an axe in the forenoon of a day when travel was at its height, when they were in their home, in Second street, but two blocks away from City Hall when their daughter Lizzie and a servant girl, Bridget Sullivan, were the only known people about the premises.
It will be recalled that the daughter was accused and imprisoned, that she stood trial and was acquitted, and that the whole case is still wrapped in mystery.
Lizzie A. and Emma, the daughters of the thrifty old man of 70 years, and the sole heirs to a half million dollars, live together in the aristocratic section of the city. Two miles of city buildings separate them from the old homestead on Second street, now occupied as a two-family house. They seldom see it, and never when they can avoid it.
At the time of the trial it was urged as a motive for the crime by the police, that the prisoner desired to enter social life, which was denied her because of her father’s penuriousness and her stepmother’s influence over him. The money that has come to her by death has certainly not aided her in attaining her desire, if that has been her desire at any time. Were it not for the presence of those friends who still cling to her, her life would be cheerless, for social hate has entered into it.
The new home she purchased on French street had been occupied by a family who brightened it in every conceivable way. Since the Bordens moved in, heavy iron bars have been placed on all the cellar windows, the blinds are rarely opened, and heavy vines have been trimmed to obscure the piazzas from all passers-by. The only servants employed are a single work girl and a man of all work. He drives the family carriage.
Shortly after the Misses Borden went to live in their new home they made successful overtures fro the removal of a tenement house that adjoined their property too closely. The lot on which it stood is vacant, buts its surface is carpeted in green, and it is bounded by a stone wall that runs around the east and north sides of the property.
There was another vacant lot directly opposite the house which offered a chance for close observers. It was bought by representatives of the two girls, and they now have its lawn carefully kept, despite the fact that it is across the street, and protects no view.
Lizzie Borden travels frequently, but does not remain away any great length of time. She does not sign her own name on the hotel registers. Emma, on the contrary, seldom goes out of the state. The two girls frequently go out in their carriage together. They ride frequently along the country drives or over to their farm in Swansea.
Sometimes they go shopping together, but as a rule that is done out of town, where attention and possible rebuffs are avoided. They both have frequent consultation with their lawyer Andrew J. Jennings, who stood by them so well, and their agent Mr. Cook, who looks after all their property and who has all the direct dealings with the numerous tenants.
They have never been known to go to church in the past six years. They take no part in church matters, and many of the Church people have cut them forever.
Lizzie recently began to take music lessons. It is also said that she takes lessons in painting. Her hobby, appears to be street pianos and hudy-gurdies. These instruments are wheeled up to her door night after night, and the neighbors remark that a dollar is the reward that is paid for a long grinding. A woman with an accordion or a tambourine is quite a acceptable as the lively piano tintillations of “Way Down in Georgia.”
The only pet on the premises is a black cat. It was sent from New York by a fancier, and has grown from kittenhood to be lord of Miss Borden’s back wall. She fondles and pets it, and it follows her about the yard like a dog.
Much of the women’s money is being spent in a charitable way, but they strictly enjoin anyone from remarking in public concerning it. They have contributed freely to local hospitals, to other kindred institutions, to the support of families they knew in their younger days, to the children of the poor, when application is made to them. In this respect Lizzie’s generosity has been remarkable.
The rewards that were offered for the apprehension of the murderer still hold good provided some one turns up to earn them.


To read more about Lizzie and the Hurdy Gurdy see: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4617&p=74279

That's a good find twins.

But what do they know about Lizzie in Canada. I heard they still believe in Santa Clause up there. Just because they get a lot of snow, doesnt'...

Never mind. (As Gilda Radner would say)

Thats really funny. Good Pick up Mr. AM. I never read that article before and it doesn't show up in any book, unless I missed it.

It would take much research to try and discover how this reporter came about all this information. Much of it is familiar and probably true. But if a reporter could not get his information directly from the horses mouth, then we must treat it as speculation.

I am sure that a Hurdy Gurdy was probably "wheeled" up to her house, but I doubt she was taking lessons. All the information this reporter had gathered was circulating on the streets, and quite popular amongst those who did not know her and could only theorize. I can't account for Lizzie, but I for one believe that Emma continued to go to church.

But, the newspeople were starving for information on Lizzie, and none of it was coming out of Maplecroft or anybody who remained true to her. So like buying drugs, they had to go to the street to get their "Lizzie" High, their Borden Fix. And who knows what is true and what is not.

Some things we can believe.

But take the line where it talks about how bright Maplecroft was before Lizzie purchased it, then after it had bars on the cellar windows, and always keeping the shades drawn. What compassion, what sympathy, what sensitivity. Hey NewpapersMan. The woman's parents were just chopped up and people keep coming up to the house and gawking. Two woman in the house and no man. Think they may be afraid NewspaperMan. And You cant even see the bars unless you're real close because they were placed on the inside.

How come they don't talk about how Charles Allen screwed Lizzie and Emma when he sold them the property. He built the house a mere 4 years previous and paid 7000. He sold it to the Borden's for 11,000 or 12,000. Talk about a 50%+ profit. Then he built a much bigger house, made of granite up on Highland Ave. for 10,000.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers. I understand you can't just disregard it all, but you need prudent and judicious appraisals of what they print in the paper.

So did Lizzie Borden take Hurdy Gurdy lessons? I doubt it. Did someone walk up to the house with one? Could be. It would be interesting to do some research and try and discover where else this is mentioned and where they came up with the story... all the way from Montreal.

Good topic though, Aamartin and Twins. Proves that no matter how much you know there is always something to learn.

PHEW.... I thought I was losing it

mbhenty wrote::
I am sure that a Hurdy Gurdy was probably "wheeled" up to her house, but I doubt she was taking lessons. All the information this reporter had gathered was circulating on the streets, and quite popular amongst those who did not know her and could only theorize. I can't account for Lizzie, but I for one believe that Emma continued to go to church.

Hurdy Gurdys came in varying sizes, and were often mounted in barrows or carts rather like a pretzel or hot dog cart. There was one worked the Willoughby Avenue, Brooklyn neighborhood of my early childhood. So "wheeled" in the article is probably quite accurate.

(You'll also see old cartoons with "organ grinders" in them?-- same thing AFAIK. I think the resin wheel of the Hurdy Gurdy reminded people of a knife grinder's abrasive wheel...)

Did the musician bring along a monkey with a tin cup or did Lizzie just write them a check once a week?

Not to worry AM. If you lose it, you will never know.

Interesting taosjohn!

From reading the article I become confused by whether they are describing a crank organ or a hurdy gurdy.

As I mentioned above.

Charles Allen had Maplecroft on the market a while. (before it was Maplecorft, built in 1889. The Allen's moved into the Highland Street address officially in 1890) But when the Borden sisters were looking for property there were some who would not show or want to sell to them. At least this is what rumor carries.

He saw them coming and took advantage of them. Not a nice guy, by my rules.

I tried to download the house he built after Maplecroft above but it would not load. It is now below.

He sold the French Street property for 12,000 and built the one below, a much bigger and better property, for 10,000. Out of granite, no less.

The photo below is of the side/back of the house from a parking lot next door. Not a very good shot of the house but the only one I could discover. It's much nicer looking from the street.

That's a very upstanding question, debbied.

But my nagging question is, where did the reporter in Montreal get this information.

Little story...

I spoke to a lady once outside Mapelcroft and she had all these misnomers and inaccurate information about Lizzie. I tried telling her the truth but she would not have it. Before we were finished I made up some of my own, which reflected hers. She was amazed and believed all the untruths I had given her because they fit her beliefs so well.

There is the Lizzie that Was, and the Lizzie everyone else's sees.

mbhenty wrote: That's a good find twins. ... Good topic though, Aamartin and Twins. ...

Thanks, mb.

MB, thank you for the picture of the Charles Allen's house, that he built after he sold Maplecroft to the Borden sisters. I appreciate the information you provided us with regarding Charles Allen selling Maplecroft to Emma and Lizzie. Very interesting.

BTW: Your downloaded image of his house worked fine for me.

I agree, mb. The newspaper article does not state where the reporter obtained this information. However, I don't believe that Lizzie actually played the Hurdy Gurdy; she just enjoyed listening to it being played. Why? I have no idea, For me, the sound that the Hurdy Gurdy makes, is very much like someone scraping their fingernails across a blackboard! It makes me cringe!!!

Oops! double post.

I think Lizzie would have listened to the street performers and then sent the maid out to pay them a dollar or two. If word got around there would have been quite a few people competing for her attention every evening, you would have thought!