The Mystery of the Pear Tree

Curiousmind2014 · Post by **Curiousmind2014** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:50 am

I have loaded some pictures of the Pear tree in the backyard of the Lizzie Borden House. The Pear tree seems to be a fascinating addition to the whole Borden case. Based on my understanding of the case, Everyone, besides Abby, was near the Pear tree during the day of the murders in some capacity.

1. Andrew: Throws his poop around it, and fetches some Pears for breakfast
2. Bridget: Goes by the barn and the Pear tree and vomits.
3. Lizzie: Claims she had the pears in the barn while her dad was getting slaughtered
4. Morse: Ignores all the people around the house, and goes right for the pears. This is the same guy who knows each and every detail about his trip that morning.

I guess Andrew's and Bridget's intent can be considered to be a chore or lack of civic sense if you ask me. However, I am always fascinated with Lizzie's story around the Pear tree and Morse's actions after his arrival to the publicly surrounded Borden home. Based on the pictures, The Pear tree allows me to gain access to the following:

1. View into the Kitchen
2. View of the Barn
3. Windows giving me a view into the cellar
4. Access to the Cellar door, and Barn door
5. Rotten smell of the poop and the vomit

Is the Pear tree a strategic part of this whole case? Or is it merely a fruit the Borden's were delighted to consume!

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:32 pm

Interesting topic, Curious. The fruit on fruit trees do not last every long, so they must be used within a short period of time. I tend to think that since the pears were ripe at the time of the murders, then they needed to be eaten before they spoiled.

I do have a question, though. Where is the testimony that Andrew threw his 'poop' around the pear tree? As I recall, Andrew threw the contents of his slop pail in the back yard, but there is no mention of what his slop pail contained.

violette · Post by **violette** » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:24 am

I recently read (however, I don't know if this is true) that pears ripen about a week after they're picked off of the tree. They don't ripen on the tree. If I'm incorrect feel free to correct me.

I couldn't imagine standing in that yard eating pears. The stench must have been horrendous to say the least, with all of the feces, urine, and vomit.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:44 am

Violette, you are partly correct; pears will ripen better if they are picked while still green, but they also will ripen on the tree.

… most pear varieties do not ripen nicely while still on the tree. Pears that are allowed to become too mature or to ripen on the tree develop a coarse, mealy texture and often have core breakdown.

http://tinyurl.com/qzala93

Bridget, Preliminary Hearing, page 6:

Q. You did not see where he went in the back yard either?
A. He went in the barn and got some water.
Q. Is there a faucet in the barn?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. City water?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. What did he do with the water?
A. Took a slop pail out, and threw it all over the yard.
Q. You mean he emptied some slops?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Wherebouts did he empty the slops?
A. Right out in the yard.
Q. Then drew some water into the pail?
A. Yes Sir.

Yes, Andrew threw the contents of his slop pail in the back yard, but there is no mention of what human waste his slop pail contained. Please post the testimony which states that Andrew’s slop pail contained feces.

violette · Post by **violette** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:51 am

I'm sorry, I was quick to assume that it did contain feces since it was a makeshift toilet during the night.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:57 pm

It's OK, Violette; no need to apologize. Thank you for your explanation. I am sure there are many people who assume that same thing you did.

My parents did not have indoor plumbing until I was in high school. We had a chamber pot with a separate lid that was used to keep the urine odor under control. (Urine odor is one thing, but feces odor is a totally different story!) The chamber pot was strictly used for urinating in before bed, during the night and in the morning when we first got up. If we needed to have a bowel movement, we were expected to use the outhouse. However, the contents of the chamber pot was NEVER thrown out on the yard, it was taken out to the outhouse and dumped down one of the holes. (We had a two seated outhouse.)

The Borden family not only had a water closet in the basement, they also had a privy behind the barn, which Andrew used.

Bridget, Preliminary Hearing, page 33:

Q. That privy out behind the barn, was that used by any member of the family, was that in use?
A. Mr. Borden used it.
Q. Did anybody else besides him?
A. Mrs. Borden sometimes.
Q. Did you ever know the girls to use it?
A. No Sir.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:47 pm

It just totally grosses me out that it was thrown in the back yard. The clothes were hung out in the yard, you walked through the yard to the barn, etc..etc... Even to get the pears on the pear tree. With the heat it must have been really bad, not to mention the smell & bacteria you could bring in on your shoes.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:37 pm

I totally agree, Nadzieja. I also find it disgusting that Andrew was too lazy to dump his slop pail in the privy behind the barn. It's not as through he never used that privy!

violette · Post by **violette** » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:30 pm

Thanks Twinsrwe that clears a lot up.

I agree with you too Nadzieja. Pretty disgusting that he couldn't walk a little further and dump it behind the privy.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:59 pm

You're welcome, Violette.

Andrew’s nasty habit of throwing his slop in the yard is extremely odd considering there was a privy a few feet away, but another thing that strikes me as being odd is the fact that Bridget knew Andrew's every move when it came to what he did with the contents of his slop pail. Surely Bridget did not have the time to stand around and watch Andrew's every move the morning of August 4th, did she? I tend to think Andrew made a daily habit of throwing the contents of his slop pail in the back yard, and over time Bridget had observed bits and pieces until she knew his every move.

debbiediablo · Post by **debbiediablo** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:17 am

I've always wondered if the stomach upsets were e.coli or something similar from eating pears or otherwise getting contamination into the food supply. E,coli can be fearsomely serious in children but nothing more than a mild upset in adults, depending on the strain. Abby might have been right about food poison but wrong about the source.

debbiediablo · Post by **debbiediablo** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:20 am

Like Twins, I'm old enough to remember outhouses and chamber pots. In face my daughter has the oak commode where mine was kept.

They were for urine only and dumped down the seat in the outhouse in the morning.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 9:24 am

I had an oak commode. (along with oak dressers in the bedroom, dry sink, old brass bed, etc.) I used the commode for unconventional purposes. As an immature and somewhat cocky young 'twenty something' I did many things that I thought as clever or brilliant.

One of them was to use my oak commode to hold ice for weekend parties at my apartment. Most had no idea what it was. No one would use the ice in their drinks, but were quick to take the small nips I kept between the frozen cubes.

Mine looked just like the one below.

Things we do when we were young and arrogant. (not that all of us were)

violette · Post by **violette** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:41 pm

Since Andrew had been could he have used the chamber pot for vomiting in at night also?

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:02 am

debbiediablo wrote:I've always wondered if the stomach upsets were e.coli or something similar from eating pears or otherwise getting contamination into the food supply. E,coli can be fearsomely serious in children but nothing more than a mild upset in adults, depending on the strain. Abby might have been right about food poison but wrong about the source.

Interesting thought Deb. You could very well be onto something here. As I far as I know, the contents of Andrews slops were not actually specified in testimony or otherwise. I assume it was only urine that Andrew threw on the ground, but it is possible that there was also feces mixed with urine, since both Abby and Andrew were not feeling well. There are some kinds of E. coli that can cause diarrhea.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/mbg476a

However, it is also possible that there may have been bird droppings on the ground where the pears fell. IMO, bird dropping makes more sense than Andrew throwing his slops on the ground. Since there was a pear tree in the Borden’s back yard, which according to testimony and documentation, had ripe fruit on it, birds would naturally be drawn to the ripe fruit.

E. coli is a type of bacteria that lives in the intestines of humans and animals. Most of the time, it does not cause any problems. However, certain types (or strains) of E. coli can cause food poisoning. One strain (E. coli O157:H7) can cause a severe case of food poisoning.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/jroe3xs

The presence of the E.coli. itself is not a major concern, it is simply an indicator of contamination. In birds this bacteria may or may not be a normal part of their gut. For example Psittacines (parrots) do not normally carry E.coli., whereas pigeons and poultry have it as a normal inhabitant of the intestine.

Source: http://www.birdsupplynh.com/vetafarm/Ec ... ndings.pdf

E.coli. Cattle carry E. coli 0157:H7. When birds peck on cow manure, the E. coli go right through the birds and the bird droppings can land on or in a food or water supply.

Source: http://tinyurl.com/qhqe3kk

In 1892 the primary way to get around was by horse and carriage. Therefore, it is possible that birds pecked on the dung from a horse, and then deposited their droppings on the ground where the Borden’s pears fell. To my knowledge there is no documentation that the Borden family ever washed the pears before they ate them. YUCK!!!

I ALWAYS thoroughly wash fresh vegetables and fruits before eating them. Years ago, I had a friend who came down with Botulism; his physician told him that lettuce is the primary source for Botulism.

From the FDA: http://tinyurl.com/zm77jes

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:18 am

debbiediablo wrote:Like Twins, I'm old enough to remember outhouses and chamber pots. In face my daughter has the oak commode where mine was kept. They were for urine only and dumped down the seat in the outhouse in the morning.

This is very similar to the chamber pot my parents had:

il_570xN_418314789_q1aq.jpg

As I have mentioned previously, I grew up on a farm. I attended the 1st grade at the elementary school, which is in town. By my 2nd year in grade school, the one room school house about half a mile from my parents farm had opened, therefore my siblings and I attended this school through the 8th grade. The school house had two separate outhouses; one for the guys, the other for the gals. Both of those outhouses had a small window opening near the roof. We had a female teacher. Sometimes, when she would go to the outhouse, one of us kids would climb up on the roof of the building, another kid would hand them a glass of water, and the kid on the roof would then throw the water through the window opening onto the teacher, then the kid on the roof would jump down to the ground and we’d all take off running. Yes, sometimes I was the kid on the roof!

Here is a picture that is very similar to the outhouses on the school property, only the window was not enclosed with glass:

218-ShedRoof-shadows-400-64.png

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:21 am

mbhenty wrote:I had an oak commode. (along with oak dressers in the bedroom, dry sink, old brass bed, etc.) I used the commode for unconventional purposes. As an immature and somewhat cocky young 'twenty something' I did many things that I thought as clever or brilliant.

One of them was to use my oak commode to hold ice for weekend parties at my apartment. Most had no idea what it was. No one would use the ice in their drinks, but were quick to take the small nips I kept between the frozen cubes.

Mine looked just like the one below.

Things we do when we were young and arrogant. (not that all of us were)

Oh my goodness, MB, you used your commode to hold ice for weekend parties?

I must say you do have a very creative mind!!!

Yes, all of us have things in our past that we did when we were young and stupid! When I was a kid, my siblings and I would skip school, hide out in the hay loft to smoke cigarettes! We were so lucky that we didn’t burn the barn down!

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:27 am

violette wrote:Since Andrew had been could he have used the chamber pot for vomiting in at night also?

I suppose both he and Abby could have used their slop pail to vomit in. Unfortunately, there is no documentation regarding what he and Abby used.

All we know is that both of them were sick and vomiting.

KGDevil · Post by **KGDevil** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:03 pm

Curiousmind2014 wrote:

I have loaded some pictures of the Pear tree in the backyard of the Lizzie Borden House. The Pear tree seems to be a fascinating addition to the whole Borden case. Based on my understanding of the case, Everyone, besides Abby, was near the Pear tree during the day of the murders in some capacity.

1. Andrew: Throws his poop around it, and fetches some Pears for breakfast
2. Bridget: Goes by the barn and the Pear tree and vomits.
3. Lizzie: Claims she had the pears in the barn while her dad was getting slaughtered
4. Morse: Ignores all the people around the house, and goes right for the pears. This is the same guy who knows each and every detail about his trip that morning.

I guess Andrew's and Bridget's intent can be considered to be a chore or lack of civic sense if you ask me. However, I am always fascinated with Lizzie's story around the Pear tree and Morse's actions after his arrival to the publicly surrounded Borden home. Based on the pictures, The Pear tree allows me to gain access to the following:

1. View into the Kitchen
2. View of the Barn
3. Windows giving me a view into the cellar
4. Access to the Cellar door, and Barn door
5. Rotten smell of the poop and the vomit

Is the Pear tree a strategic part of this whole case? Or is it merely a fruit the Borden's were delighted to consume!

Interesting things to ponder Curiousmind. The pears and pear tree do seem to make their way into the statements of the witnesses and the actions of our main characters on the day of the murders quite a bit. If only that tree could talk!

I am not sure how well anyone could see into the kitchen windows from the tree. The windows are a fair distance from the ground. Then we have to add the distance from the house to the tree. I couldn't see inside very well when I was standing directly beneath any of the windows. And I stand at a good 6 feet tall. I think the distance between the windows and the ground is something few people take into account. Especially during Lizzie's dress burning incident. The police didn't have a direct sight view into the kitchen windows due to the height. But that is another subject.

I think Andrew throwing his slop pail into the yard could possibly have been a habit aquired from early life? There was a period in history when people would simply open their windows and empty their buckets out on the street. I've read that it was often safer to walk on the city streets than on or near the sidewalks in certain places. Because of the human waste and garbage. Just a thought. It would be nice to know what the contents of the pail included. Could it even have been the water used to wash up that morning in his room if he did so? Would they empty the contents of their wash bowl into their slop pail to dispose of it? It seems plausible since I am not sure how else they might dispose of their wash water on the second floor.

Andrew also brought pears into the house that morning and left them on the kitchen table. Bridget is the only one who didn't seem to care for pears.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:42 pm

I never thought of many of the things I just read here! OK, I'm sure glad that I was brought up with running water, toilet, showers etc....
In Parallel Lives they talk about how people would get ill from the food. I'm really surprised more people didn't die from partially spoiled food. Even milk left on porches without refrigeration. I wash everything I get from the store in the way of fruit & produce because I'm conscious of the possibility of contamination. I remember when we had to boil water because we had E Coli in the water. that was no fun, but at least we got a warning.

Curiousmind2014 · Post by **Curiousmind2014** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:29 pm

Just to feed on my curiosity, I ended up visiting Fall River this week.

It was an amazing experience, and it gives me a new perspective on the case while going all around the city. However, I was dead scared to enter the house :p. However, the house looks very small from the outside, and so was the backyard.

Coming to the Pear Tree, I still see no reason why Uncle John went straight on to the pear tree. He could not have missed the people by any means. Or heard them gossip about the death. Also, the backyard seemed very small. Smaller than I expected.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:21 pm

The yard would have looked much bigger if it were grass and trees instead of asphalt.

About Morse's dallying....

You cannot stay at someone's house without acquiring some knowledge of everyday family behavior, conduct and feelings that the occupants have towards one another. Add to that the fact that Morse was a relative, and it is a sure thing that he knew how Lizzie and Emma felt about their parents and certain that he heard things..... many things.

Thus when he got to the house his inner voice must have said to him. "Oh Sh-t. I knew something like this was going to happen." Or something along those lines. In doing so, he was lost, afraid, or sure of what had happened. Going for a pear was his way of collecting his thoughts, taking a breath, preparing himself for what he knew he may find.

So why did he not say anything damming Lizzie or Emma to the police or in court? Because it was family.

If he did not witness it, there was no way he would volunteer any clue, motive, or gossip. But when he arrived at the house there is no doubt he saw the crowd. There was also no reason to rush inside the house to observe what he already knew. This is not to say that he knew something. Just that he may have. And heard enough to have his arrival detained before going inside the house.

Thus to me his behavior was not as strange as it may seem.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:08 pm

I agree with you MB, he wouldn't have said a word because of them being family. Especially seeing they were his sister's children.
I'm sure he knew much more about what went on in that house than people realize. I also was under the impression that he spoke quite a bit with Andrew. Who knows what Andrew could have told him.
I think he was apprehensive about going in the house because I'm sure he didn't know what he was going to see.

JamesInnocentBorden · Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:31 am

Sorry if this was already answered but are there any trees still surviving on the Borden property that existed during 1892? I realize the pear tree is no doubt gone by now.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:30 am

The last time I was there I remember seeing a pear tree, right in front of the house, but no old trees around the border. I could be wrong, but I really wasn't looking for old trees. The neighborhood has changed drastically from back then.

Curiousmind2014 · Post by **Curiousmind2014** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:58 am

I was there last week.

There is a driveway slammed with concrete on the right of the house, and a backyard slammed with concrete too. The front of the house has little greens, leaving no room for the pear tree. The only place there can be one is on its left side.

However, I did not notice any. I believe a woman saw Andrew walking back from the kitchen entrance to the front entrance that very day. After my visit, I don't see how both of them could have missed each other. there is little space between the home and side walk. Unless things were different then.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:44 am

Off the top of my head wasn't that Mrs. Kelly who was late for a dentist appointment.

The old pictures of the properties are quite interesting. I would have loved to see Mrs. Churchill's house next door and Dr. Bowen's house across the street. One fact that surprised me was that Mrs. Churchill was the daughter of the former mayor of Fall River.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:25 am

I also agree with you, MB, regarding John Morse's dallying. He was most likely in a state of shock, and I'm sure he must have needed some time to allow the realism of both murders to sink in. Eating a pear would give him the time he needed to face anything he may encounter in the house. I'm sure he subconsciously noticed the crowd, but his mind was most likely numb or focused on other things. I do not find his behavior at all strange.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:32 pm

Nadzieja, I know you probably mean the inside of Mrs. Churchill's house, and Dr. Bowen's house. I would also like to see the inside of Dr. Bowen's house, because from the outside it appears to have been quite large.

Dr. Bowen's House - Second Street ~ bowenmillersecondst.jpg

Source for Photo: http://tinyurl.com/jystm88

Although, I'd be please as punch to see the Borden house on Second Street!

Curiousmind2014 · Post by **Curiousmind2014** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:44 pm

The house looks extremely glamorous for a Second St setting. I definitely did not like the location of the Borden house today and guessing of it previously. It must be cramped between many houses, on a small Second St.

I am surprised the neighbors don't know much of what was happening in the house. To me it seems like the Bordens had lack of privacy.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:52 pm

Yes, Dr. Bowen's house does appear to be a large glamorous estate, especially when you compare it to the Kelly and Borden houses. I agree, the houses seem to be very close together on Second Street.

Here is a photo showing how close the houses were. The Kelly house is on the right, and then the Borden house and Mrs. Churchill's house.

Kelly house, Borden house and Mrs. Churchill's house.jpg

I have not been to Fall River, but I understand Second Street is almost unrecognizable today, since they city has demolished many of the building that were there in 1892.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:58 pm

Dr. Bowen's house does look so glamorous!! I love the windows in the front and the side porch. Believe me I would love to tour of just about any house on French St. and the surrounding area. Talk about beautiful Victorians. The victorian houses around here been totally destroyed with cheap renovations etc.... I look at them & try to think how they must have looked.

Thank you for posting the picture of Dr. Bowen's house.

Curiousmind2014 · Post by **Curiousmind2014** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:19 pm

Nadzieja I totally agree with you. Houses in the highlands, or the hill were extremely pretty as compared to the setting of the second street. Add to that no electricity and no plumbing at the Borden house.

It was a nightmare! Also, Lizzie had a very different personality than the rest of her family. Abby was a plain Jane homely lady with no friends. Andrew was a miser who loved money more than his life, and Emma remains an enigma, who probably was an introvert, and lacked interests in life. Lizzie of all, was a fiery redhead with a passion to live a life, interests, friends and pets. She probably could not stand company of her family.

I personally believe that the cruise of circa 1890-91 for Lizzie probably became a turning point as she got a taste of life on the Hill. That may have triggered stealing, followed by a double axe murder.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:36 pm

Emma really wasn't an introvert. She did attend Wheaton College. She also did travel some, the day of the murders she was in Fairhaven visiting friends.
One thing I totally agree with you on is that the cruise to Europe had to have been a turning point. She travelled first class with other ladies who did live on the hill and were used to having privileges. Coming home to Second St. had to have been not only a letdown but must have totally grated on her nerves. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some depression experienced on the return home.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:53 pm

Since we are talking about Dr. Bowen and his house.

And to bring up something that is off topic, (which I'm great for)

I bid on a painting this week on eBay. I lost and was beat out by one other bidder. The painting was a still life by Franklin Harrison Miller. He was prolific in the 2nd half of the 19th century. He is one of the Fall River artists who belong to a group of artist known as "The Fall River School of Still Life Painting which included Robert Spear Dunning.

So what does this have to do with Lizzie?

Franklin Harrison Miller was the brother of Dr. Bowen's wife and the son of Southard Miller, the carpenter who built 92 Second Street. When his paintings do come up for sale they usually sell for upwards of 2000 dollars/plus. Someone got a real good deal on this one.

Click on it to make BIG

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:02 pm

That's right, I thought the name Miller sounded familiar. Oh MB so sorry you didn't get this, it's a beautiful painting.

SallyG · Post by **SallyG** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:18 am

A bedroom slop pail was generally not used as a chamber pot. There would have been a separate covered chamber pot, which was not emptied into the slop pail. The slop pail may have been a matching covered china vessel for wastewater. They would have had a china pitcher of water and poured some of that in the bowl for washing up, shaving, etc. The water was poured into the slop pail, then more water was poured into the bowl for rinsing, etc. Most people did a wash in the morning..even though a full bath was infrequently done, maybe once a week, they still did hands, face, underarms, etc every morning. The soapy water, rinse water, etc, was poured into the slop pail, so it was mostly water in the slop pail that was poured outside. Wastewater was generally poured outside anyway...dishwater, bath water, etc. The chamber pot would have been emptied into the privy or downstairs toilet, not into the slop pail. The chamber pot was generally for urination during the night only. I can recall our summer place in the Adirondacks from the early 1800's...there was what looked like a shallow sink on the floor with one faucet on the second floor which was for emptying and rinsing the chamber pot of urine.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:11 pm

SallyG, welcome back to the forum! I have missed you, and it’s good to see you posting again.

Thank you for posting the information regarding the use of chamber pots and slop pails.

I did some research and found this explanation about chambers pots and slop pails, at Wlktionary: http://tinyurl.com/jxu566h

I also found an e-book titled, How to Be a Victorian: A Dawn-to-Dusk Guide to Victorian Life (Open the following link, and then scroll up to the beginning of Chapter 8, titled, Back At The House): http://tinyurl.com/hy7aua8

As I previously mentioned, my family used a chamber pot for urinating in at night, which was taken out to the outhouse in the morning, and dumped. It was then rinsed out with water that was drawn from the spigot that was attached to the pipe that carried water from the underground well down to the milk house.

We had a pitcher and wash basin for washing up in the morning; this morning wash-up was referred to as a ‘spit-bath’ (I know that sounds gross, but it had nothing to do with human spit.) However, we didn’t have a slop pail that our soapy wash-up water was poured into. There was a special area in the backyard where soapy dish water and morning wash-up water was poured out on the ground.

This is a very similar picture of what my parents pitcher and wash basin looked like:

$_12.jpg

My grandmother had a pitcher and wash basin that looked very much like this:

IMG_6793.jpg

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:24 pm

Nadzieja wrote:... Thank you for posting the picture of Dr. Bowen's house.

You're welcome for the picture of Dr. Bowen's house, Nadzieja.

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:25 pm

MB, that is a gorgeous painting! I’m so sorry you didn’t get it. That painting would have been a treasure to own, that’s for sure.

BTW, do you happen to have a better picture of Dr. Bowen’s house?

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:38 pm

Hey Twins:

No. I think that is the only known photo of the entire facade of the Bowen house. I'll have to ask the boys at the FRHS if there are any others.

As a boy I have walked by that building and never noticed it. All I did notice was pretty girls and classic cars. Now days I will stand by a wonderful old Victorian or Greek Revival home and admire it, while the pretty girls and classic cars go by unnoticed. How we mature. (Or lose our minds?)

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:50 am

mbhenty wrote:Hey Twins:

No. I think that is the only known photo of the entire facade of the Bowen house. I'll have to ask the boys at the FRHS if there are any others. ...

Thanks, MB. It would be wonderful if the guys at FRHS did have another photo. I appreciate your willingness to ask them.

mbhenty wrote:... As a boy I have walked by that building and never noticed it. All I did notice was pretty girls and classic cars. Now days I will stand by a wonderful old Victorian or Greek Revival home and admire it, while the pretty girls and classic cars go by unnoticed. How we mature. (Or lose our minds?)

I hear ya!!!

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 4:25 pm

Yes:

Story time. I think I told this one to you once before, Twins.

But my best friend, who I have known for almost 60 years, has a sister. She is married to the fellow who knocked down the Bowen house. Yes, yes, it is coming to me as my fingers bang this keyboard. I have mentioned this story before. But I will again for those who have not heard it.

But my friend's sister's husband, Troy, (got that) was a teenager when his father knocked down the Bowen house, the city hall, and many other buildings in the heart of fall river to make way for RT 195. He swears that there was a long tunnel that went under the street all the way to the Borden House. He told me that he had crawled through it.

Stefani was going to interview Troy for a formal article about the demolition of the Bowen house in the old Hatchet magazine but the magazine's tenure ended and we never got around to it. Troy and I (not his real name) have had a history together though we were never close friends. He was like 4 years older than I was. But when I worked for Verizon I would show up on his job sites, where he was demolishing a house, and take down the telephone wires. That is when he first told me the story about the Bowen house.

It is a strange story. Also strange is the fact that Southard Miller, who built the Borden House also built the Bowen House. Interesting observation, nonetheless, and one which opens up a whole new can of mixed vegetables.

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:38 pm

That is a fantastic story MB. I didn't read this one before! That sure does open up a whole new can of vegetables and a whole bunch more theories!
I do miss the Hatchet magazine, I loved it & have every copy. When that magazine showed up in my mailbox, everything else I was reading was put on the side until I was done with all the articles.

This is one story that should be put down on paper or recorded even if it's only at the historical society. Truthfully I think it's kind of important. I don't think tunnels between houses was common or am I totally mistaken on that??

twinsrwe · Post by **twinsrwe** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:52 pm

Yes, I do remember your tunnel story! I know you mentioned the you had checked at 92 Second Street for the tunnel, and couldn’t find it. Have you had the opportunity to talk to that gentleman to see if he could remember any more details?

Thanks for reposting your tunnel story, again. I think it is something that the newer members will find interesting and would enjoy knowing.

Curiousmind2014 · Post by **Curiousmind2014** » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:07 pm

Hey MB,

I have heard of this tunnel thing from someone before. I can't recall who. But do you think it would have played a role in the murders?

Something like,

1. Bowen comes with the weapon, and kills them.
2. Leaves by the tunnel with the weapon and the box Andrew bought home
3. Comes back. fixes the scene. Apparently burns a note.

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:34 am

Yes Curio:

Though a fascinating little story it is highly unlikely that such a tunnel could exist and exiting on the Borden property without anyone mentioning or talking about it in 1892.

I don't deny that my friend did find a tunnel and did crawl through it. Chances are that it was an old sewer of sorts. I inspected the Borden basement walls and tried to find an irregularity or unevenness in the stone work that may give me a clue that some foundation work was done. But the stonework on the walls are pretty consistent.

At the time in 1892, there was much talk about why the killer was not seen leaving the property. A question like this would have surely brought on discussion of a tunnel if one indeed existed.

Next time I see Troy I will need to ask him where the tunnel started. Did it actually go into the basement of the Bowen house? Could it have been part of the Underground Railroad? All information we have that such a tunnel existed comes from my friend Troy. At the time the Bowen house was demolished I was 12 and Troy must have been around 16. So it was a long time ago. AS I mentioned, I have no reason to doubt Troy's story. Just that it is not what he thinks it was. A possible escape route for the real killer of Andrew and Abby. (Hmm? Andrew and Abby! Sounds like a love story)

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:51 pm

I just had a thought, seeing you checked the basement of the Borden house & didn't find anything irregular. How about coming up near or under the barn?

KGDevil · Post by **KGDevil** » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:39 am

SallyG wrote:A bedroom slop pail was generally not used as a chamber pot. There would have been a separate covered chamber pot, which was not emptied into the slop pail. The slop pail may have been a matching covered china vessel for wastewater. They would have had a china pitcher of water and poured some of that in the bowl for washing up, shaving, etc. The water was poured into the slop pail, then more water was poured into the bowl for rinsing, etc. Most people did a wash in the morning..even though a full bath was infrequently done, maybe once a week, they still did hands, face, underarms, etc every morning. The soapy water, rinse water, etc, was poured into the slop pail, so it was mostly water in the slop pail that was poured outside. Wastewater was generally poured outside anyway...dishwater, bath water, etc. The chamber pot would have been emptied into the privy or downstairs toilet, not into the slop pail. The chamber pot was generally for urination during the night only. I can recall our summer place in the Adirondacks from the early 1800's...there was what looked like a shallow sink on the floor with one faucet on the second floor which was for emptying and rinsing the chamber pot of urine.

Thank you, SallyG, this answered my question about the wash water and then some. Thank you for sharing this information.

KGDevil · Post by **KGDevil** » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:49 am

twinsrwe wrote:SallyG, welcome back to the forum! I have missed you, and it’s good to see you posting again.

Thank you for posting the information regarding the use of chamber pots and slop pails.

I did some research and found this explanation about chambers pots and slop pails, at Wlktionary: http://tinyurl.com/jxu566h

I also found an e-book titled, How to Be a Victorian: A Dawn-to-Dusk Guide to Victorian Life (Open the following link, and then scroll up to the beginning of Chapter 8, titled, Back At The House): http://tinyurl.com/hy7aua8

As I previously mentioned, my family used a chamber pot for urinating in at night, which was taken out to the outhouse in the morning, and dumped. It was then rinsed out with water that was drawn from the spigot that was attached to the pipe that carried water from the underground well down to the milk house.

We had a pitcher and wash basin for washing up in the morning; this morning wash-up was referred to as a ‘spit-bath’ (I know that sounds gross, but it had nothing to do with human spit.) However, we didn’t have a slop pail that our soapy wash-up water was poured into. There was a special area in the backyard where soapy dish water and morning wash-up water was poured out on the ground.

This is a very similar picture of what my parents pitcher and wash basin looked like:

$_12.jpg
My grandmother had a pitcher and wash basin that looked very much like this:

IMG_6793.jpg

Twins, I own an antique wash stand with a pitcher and basin sitting on top which is similar to the first one pictured. There is also a smaller bowl and basin kept underneath. But I must say I wasn't sure of how the water was emptied, or what role a slop pail may have played.