Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Here I go again; just can't get enough of it. My third essay on the topic can be found here:
http://simsweird.infinityfreeapp.com/lizzieborden3.html
This time I've come up with some "inventive" solutions!

Vorchek -- you may already have this info on the Joseph Lemay 'sighting', but policeman A. Perron wrote up the report and it is on pages 44 and 45 in the Witness Statements.

The event occurred 5:30pmish August 17 and was documented in the police report the 18th.

Yes. I just wondered if anything else ever came of it.

The thing that I find the most telling or not telling about the burning dress scene. Was not the actual witnessing of her burning the dress or even the fact that she said basically that's the worst thing she could have done. Or waiting to tell all at a later date. The thing I find strange is #1 When Alice said that you might be seen, Lizzie steps back from the window. Almost like a reflex. I am not sure if the Knowlton took advantage of that. And #2 Alice said that she did not see any blood on the dress. IDK - I guess they did things differently back then.
Oh and BTW these were some really dumb cops. But to their defense this was not a thing that they had experience in. My opinion was the Marshall was going to lose his job if he didn't find someone to take this rap. And why was Asst. Marshall Fleet hiding a hatchet in a different place so he could retrieve it later. ??

Are you thinking they forced the arrest and the charges weren't warranted?

If any or all of the following had not occurred, do you think the verdict would have been the same?
Lizzie was a man
Lizzie had not been wealthy and able to hire an elite, extraordinarily expensive legal team
Eli Bence had been allowed to testify, along with his two fellow employees. And the likely testimony of the 2 New Bedford pharmacists.
Lizzie's inquest testimony had been admitted.

I think they had a mob out there and the Mayor was under the gun to calm his city down. It happens today - whenever a crisis happens - out comes the wooden mobile apology/ explanation podium on wheels ready to bring their city under control.

I think that there was absolutely zero proof that she should have been charged. Weather she did it / had it done or did not do it, it doesn't matter , the way that it was handled was wrong - of course I am sitting in the comfort of my home typing this and I wasn't there.

But from what I have read so far. There was no reason to charge her. I am not sure what the laws were back then as far as extracting information from a person though. I mean - she said a couple of nasty things about her stepmom way back when ? They were just grasping at very flimsy straws - prussic acid thing yet another attempt to put her in a negative slant. So what she was buying poison ? everybody buys rat poison or from time to time. Does that mean everybody is a suspect ? Just because we stop calling our stepmother's -Mother ? I don't know why she wanted that acid but from what they tell us it's pretty volatile even in its diluted state of Hydrocyanic Acid - I am curious though if they can tell us how many people have been killed by that - used as a weapon.
Of course she was the only one in the house at the time. So was Bridget and how do we know she was doing chores all of the time ?
Why does she pick this day / and year to off her parents ?
But that's my opinion.

If she was a man ? - IDK - maybe back then men did commit pretty heinous crimes. But as we all know the proc. failed to produce a weapon / blood on clothing , hair, shoes, and whatever. There is still a doubt. But then again I am thinking in 2021 terms.

But the hiring of Geo. Robinson was pretty good being he promoted Dewey to a judge. Wink Wink - But if the proc. had better evidence - even that would not have saved her. Dewey really went out on a limb with the jury instructions - but I suppose that's what they do ???

I too see an untoward eagerness on the part of the authorities to arrest someone, and having quickly focused on Lizzie ("I don't like that girl") she was it. The haste and methods used guaranteed a shaky case at trial. Objectively speaking, why move so fast on such weak evidence? Lizzie wasn't going anywhere, being stuck at home even if she had ideas. The police had plenty more time available to search, to sift, to interview. So much will never be known because they rushed to judgment.

If Lizzie had been a man, dirt poor, and everyone this side of China had testified, there still would have been no suspicious blood and no obvious murder weapon. A cheap defense would have hammered on those latter points just as hard. The evidence convinced the male police. It did not convince the male jury. I'm not convinced male or female significantly mattered.

"the wooden mobile apology/ explanation podium on wheels" That's a good one. I can picture this big, creaky device being pushed out into the public square by a quartet of brawny men, with a pompous orator already in place.

The idea that gender and wealth had nothing to do with the outcome is interesting.

I am just going by what I have been reading - and I am new at this. But as an outsider reading about a mob growing outside - actually a violent mob, (for some reason) and I really think they could have waited and got their minds together and perhaps search warrants (if required back then) . And yes they searched, but you hear not a thorough search - then I believe the next day it was a thorough search.

These cops were as dumb as they get and the more they searched the more they came up with absolutely nothing and the more desperate they were getting. They were searching from the get go and found nothing. In fact that pinhead spot of blood on the slip that was of no consequence actually has meaning, it tells us that they must have searched that dress well and if they did that - then it is reasonable that their searches were too, done with care.