Lizzie Borden Society Forum

MB or anyone else that might know......is there a way to purchase or get a copy of all the LB Quarterlies? When I google to get access to some of them, they are remarkably difficult to read and not convenient to browse topics.

Thanks for any advise!

camgarsky4 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:30 am MB or anyone else that might know......is there a way to purchase or get a copy of all the LB Quarterlies? When I google to get access to some of them, they are remarkably difficult to read and not convenient to browse topics.

Thanks for any advise!

Camgarsky4,

Did you ever find out how to access these?
Thanks.

No. Maybe Kat has an idea. I’d be happy to pay for copies of the Quarterly.

I was wandering about copyright (as snokkums used to put it). I will ask Stef.
BTW: there is an LBQ index on the LAB website- is there any particular item/essay you were most interested in?
I do so hope to be able to help because the only reason I'm here is to hopefully help with scholarship. You all are the Next Gen, as far as I'm concerned, taking the case to the 21st century. Someone has to do it.
This is an unsolved crime and there has been no justice for the victims.

Oh my goodness.....just went over to the Virtual Library to the Hatchet link (which I've done a dozen times before), but just noticed that if I scroll towards bottom of the 'page' and let my cursor sit there for a moment, more articles pop up. Its like Christmas! So many more new articles to read.

That said, I didn't see a specific index.....where is that located on the Hatchet link?

Thx!

Kat wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:49 pm I was wandering about copyright (as snokkums used to put it). I will ask Stef.
BTW: there is an LBQ index on the LAB website- is there any particular item/essay you were most interested in?
I do so hope to be able to help because the only reason I'm here is to hopefully help with scholarship. You all are the Next Gen, as far as I'm concerned, taking the case to the 21st century. Someone has to do it.
This is an unsolved crime and there has been no justice for the victims.

I will look at the index. Any possibility you (Pear Tree Press, et al., in conjunction with whomever else may have rights) might put out a volume(s) of "Best Of the LBQ"? Could be a money maker for the Press to fund other research or Lizzie history or literary projects. I'd buy it/them in a heartbeat! Wish I'd subscribed when I'd had the chance.

To be helping us with keeping up the standards of scholarship - none better! and so generous - but it's a thrill when you give your opinions You still feel indignation for Abby and Andrew and want justice for them: Good for you. Some may lose sight that real people died. You all established impressive work here. It's right that you should be proud.

Thank you!
This link goes to the info you requested as to LBQ index, one by author, one by issue content. It is listed under Bibliography at lizzieandrewborden.com
Stef did a stellar job at organizing this!
We were not affiliated with the publishing of the LBQ until it was ready to go out of business. Stef, knowing Maynard Bertolet, was approached by him, giving her first notice and asking us to think about taking over the niche as he was retiring. That's how The Hatchet was conceived.

https://lizzieandrewborden.com/bibliographies.htm

Hello
Stef responded that we can go to
Archive.org
and enter Lizzie Borden Quarterly, and get them as downloadable “books."

https://archive.org/details/lizziebordenquar82001fall

(For instance this one is 104 pages.)

They are digitized by the Internet Archive (in 2012) with funding from Boston Library Consortium Member Libraries.

I did not know they were online, and apparently know not much about copyright since I'm not a publisher.
Hope this helps!

Oh my gosh, Kat (and Stefanie), thank you!!! May go back to lurking so I have time to devote to reading all these…

While you are busy making our dreams come true, may I ask about another source I’ve longed to read?
That is, “The Privy.”
(Whenever I’ve gone to the archives and seen the phrase, “It’s in the Privy,” I’ve felt like a kid with my nose pressed up against the glass on the other side of which was a secret room full of folks having the most fun.)
If we can’t get access to it now for some reason, can you at least explain what it is/was? Thanks!

Oh it's definitely fun in The Privy!
Here is the link to the Admin page where user group requirements are listed

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5622

Minimum posts 126, with actual contributing content, and is not open to be seen by the public.

This is what your new Forum page would look like once the Privy is open to you
(can click on pic)

Kat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:23 pm Oh it's definitely fun in The Privy!
Here is the link to the Admin page where user group requirements are listed

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5622

Minimum posts 126, with actual contributing content, and is not open to be seen by the public.

So, it's actually 301 posts until Privy access, I see from clicking on the link you post here?
Heavy sigh. Never have I wanted a restroom so much

Yes, you're right it IS 301. Sorry about the 126. I guess I can't wait to welcome you all there!

I have never heard of the LBQ. To be honest when I first read those initials I thought you left 'some' off... THEN it came to me what they stood for.

So I did not know this forum was connected to The Hatchet, which I have seen on occasion. I'm a bit lost on all the connections. Interesting.

Thanks for bringing up the matter!
Sequence of events:

-The Lizzie Borden Conference was held in 1992, with Jules Ryckebusch as Chair. That generated a book called "Proceedings".

-In January, 1993, Ryckebusch published The Lizzie Borden Quarterly, with Ken Souza as Editor. It was a paper newsletter, about 20 - 25 pages, associated with Bristol Community College. Next Editor was Maynard Bertolet, and last Editor was Gabriela Adler. The whole run was through Oct. 2003. At the end, it was more than a newsletter, and more like a slender paper magazine. (The April 2003 edition features a retired Prof Ryckebusch reminiscing).
Stefani had contributed as writer, as had several folks who came to write for The Hatchet. When Mr Bertolet was ready to retire he approached Stefani, giving we sisters first chance at creating something to fill the niche. (Sort of handing on the hatchet, so to speak)
She had to become a publisher, learning from scratch.

-In 2001, Stef had created a website Lizzieandrewborden.com, with myself brainstorming suggestions and contributing content to it. We just noticed it is the 20th Anniversary

-The Lizzie Andrew Borden Society Forum evolved thru maybe 3 incarnations, due to "server" issues. The archives here show saved dates starting Jan 2002 thru April 2004, but we had it earlier at Arborwood, also. So, 2 gens Arborwood, then this one we share here. But even earlier than that we were all at a site called Darkrose, which was a Lizzie forum run by a couple whose main website was about pedigree dogs, and we were "in the basement."
That server went down multiple times, and the posters were getting frustrated, as you may well know the feeling when you try to get on a site and you're refused for a week, on and off. Since Stef already had the website, and the capacity to create and link a new Forum specifically dedicated to Lizzie ( and not dogs), we agreed to try to do that.

- The Hatchet started publication Feb/March 2004, first issue being 70 pages, almost 3 times the length of the LBQ. There have been 30 issues, last one published Dec 2013. There is also still in publication, The Literary Hatchet, which Is published by Stef and Editor is Eugene Hosey. Stef also has her MondoLizzie site.

- All these sites are connected to Stefani, except we are not affiliated with the out-of-print LBQ, or the old Darkrose forum (except as posters).
Again, thanks for your interest.

An example of the LBQ (note Fritz Aldiz in issue, plus I wrote all over them)

First edition of The Hatchet--- never before seen, it was Stef's handmade mock-up, not for sale.

The newer designed Hatchet--she just gets better and better at what she does

And yes, Fritz wanted to be published in the LBQ AND The Hatchet, bless him.

Congratulations on the 20th anniversary, Kat! Those must have been quite exciting times.

Thank you!
Because of the website, Stef was contacted by Morningstar Productions who were making a documentary on the Borden murders for The Discovery Channel: "Lizzie Borden Had An Axe." She was invited to Fall River to film her part, in March, 2004, and allowed to bring me with her, and they used me as well. It first aired the night before Halloween, 2004, and became a staple every year around that time on tv.

Afterwards, we asked Tim Evans, the producer, to write up his experience for our magazine. His account is very interesting, informative and amusing. Here's a link:

https://lizzieandrewborden.com/HatchetO ... ecial.html

HH, anyone?

Hatchet head looks surprisingly small, to me. Nice to see its size proportionate to your hand. Was it heavy or light?

Good question. It seemed heavyish and solid but I was concerned that the little stump of wood handle would fall out as it was unstable. It was then I realized that it was possible it had been completely removed in the past and put back together, so I was very careful. The curators seemed to be aware of the fragility of the piece of handle.

I did make my own determination as to the controversy over whether the handle had "vise marks" as had been postulated in the past. Stef took very close up photos for me, and it's my own opinion the marks are not of a vise (which some thought proved the handle was broken on purpose), but rather a mark left by the head of the hatchet itself grinding the wood. On one side it corresponds very closely to movement of the hatchet head itself...and you know these hatchet heads can be modified with new handles, most likely by using a shim.

Anyway, I don't believe it is the murder weapon, but to hold such a famous artifact that belonged to the Bordens, was in their house murder day and handled by all the major male characters in the case inspired me with awe!

I've always respected the Discovery Channel documentary more than most...They really tried to get the facts straight. The luminol of the basement while dramatic was a bit overplayed as luminol also reacts with iron, feces, as well as blood. Basements of the Victorian era contain all of those. DID like the luminol-ing of the floorboards under Andrew's head...that was cool. The matching of the hatchet head with the scarf was dramatic. While I'm not sure that particular hatchet was the weapon, the size comparison showed that if not that hatchet, a very similar one was used. Lastly, a bit over-playing of the family bullying "Maggie", I understand that it was just Lizzie and Emma who insisted on calling her Maggie. While I go back and forth on the sexual incest angle, the forensic psychiatrist did try to make a good case for it with his analysis. Unfortunately, having been a psychologist myself 98% of their analysis is pure conjecture. True much of the time, often it is absolutely wrong. People don't fit into cookie-cutter molds.
Kat's cameo was cool, with Kat and Stefani being on TV, I feel like I'd better double check my facts before I post

Kat, very interesting observations about the hatchet.

I was struck by Evans', (the producer's), comment in his Hatchet write-up after himself hatcheting a pig skull: He believed Lizzie had 'whacked' Abby so many times just because it was so hard to penetrate the skull, and not out of a blinding hate-filled rage leading to overkill.

Hence, my earlier question to you about the heft of the hatchet head. Whether or not it was "the" weapon, trial experts testified they found the killing implement had to have had similar dimensions (at least as far as the head).

This raises in my mind further thinking about that previous post of Camgarsky4's. I want Lizzie to have acted with hatred, as at least that makes her seem more human. If she did not, that seems indication of sociopathy, or a personality disorder.

Please see the partial posting of Camgarsky4, to which I refer in my above post, under the topic, "Survey of current posters' ideas of the culprit."

After filming, I became very interested in that handkerchief. I even called Prof. Mauriello at the University of Maryland about his views on handling and filming the artifact.*
I had a picture of it in black and white all messed up with the hair switch from when it was donated to the FRHS, and what was displayed on the program seemed too clean to me.

So, of course, I started researching and studying and writing, including booking time at the archive at the FRHS,where I was graciously offered an examination of the handkerchief because I was in the video, and have the results of that in a past Hatchet journal article called On the Trail of the Bloody Handkerchief

http://lizzieandrewborden.com/HatchetOn ... chief.html

I'm convinced the HH is not the weapon, and also that handkerchief was not worn by Abbie murder morning in the guest room, and even the 2 "Toms" as Evans calls them, pretty much said it was a spontaneous theory and curiosity to try to fit the blade to the tear, proving nothing. They understood the thing was tattered and torn and delicate and some tears could have been just the result of degradation of the fabric where folded. Evans said it made a good tv moment.

*The professor took my call, although he was in class! He said it was ok, he had time to talk because he had just assigned the work to the students and was available. My advice as a writer: the people who are interested, engaged and curious will be willing to talk to you, so do try writing, phoning or e-mail.

Another terrific Hatchet article, article, Kat, this time on the handkerchief - I like how your articles therein are so thorough, asking seemingly every potential question. Good to know that the tears could be just from age, not cuts - though in the Discovery film, they did seem to match the size of the handle-less hatchet head (or, of course, of any hatchet head of that size).

PossumPie, Stef called me up all excited the day of the Luminol testing and said Tim had called her and asked if either one of us had a special request of where to test for blood- that they're going to spray in the cellar.

I agree, there are other substances that can react with Luminol - even bleach! And so many people had lived there after 1893!

Anyway, one of my suggestions was the doorway and frame around Lizzie's bedroom, thinking maybe a bloody dress might have left a swipe of blood if she entered or left her bedroom between killings, or during a change of clothes, but that wasn't chosen.

This is the kind of topic we would have in the Privy, because after 300 posts we all know each other pretty well and can speak frankly and I've usually actually met the members. This feels a bit like bragging in public and so sorry about that, but the interest and enthusiasm here is like fuel...

Thank you Jodi, for reading my articles!
I haven't discussed them in a long time!

Here is a copy of the original picture of the artifacts dated Sept, 1968, when the Hip-Bath Collection was received into the FRHS. When I compared this to what was displayed in the video, it filled me with questions and curiosity! That lead to my search On The Trail of the Bloody Handkerchief!

Kat, I seem to recall that Steph and MB had a photo of Abby that might change our thoughts on what she was wearibg. Does that ring a bell? I’ve wondered if Abby was wearing an apron.

I believe that topic had to do with the sheet that covered Abby?
Apparently there was some heated discussion about sheet rolled and twisted around Abbie's waist area vs her dress rucked up, at picture-taking time, which was around 3:30 pm. It seems sensible the officials would roll the sheet down for the photo.
I think Stef had a hi-def photo and was convinced about that awkward-looking situation with Abbie's clothing.
I wasn't here for that but I heard about it. Is it that to which you refer?
If you wanted to know if Abbie wore an apron, that would be a search thru the testimonies. I don't recall anyone said she wore one that morning.