Page 1 of 1

What were Lizzies activities July 23rd?

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:48 am
by camgarsky4
We all spend so much time dissecting August 4th, but I am thinking that understanding what happened in the days leading up to August 4th will be equally telling. I tend to be flexible on the timing of events because that is easy to confuse. However, specific recollections of events are more meaningful and I give great merit to them when evaluating Borden info.

Most of us know that Saturday, July 23rd might have been a key date for the murders, because that is when Lizzie was in New Bedford and shopping alone. We also know that Knowlton identified two different pharmacists in New Bedford that he had summoned to testify in the trial and there are solid indications that Knowlton believed Lizzie had attempted to purchase Prussic Acid at these pharmacies. Did she visit those pharmacies on the 23rd? Did she acquire a hatchet that day? Did she purchase dress cloth to make a duplicate dress? These are all possibilities that have been debated.

What makes the 23rd even more fascinating is that Lizzie may not have been forthcoming about her activities that day.

Below is testimony by Emma and Lizzie that directly contradict:

Lizzie Inquest testimony
Q. How long had she (Emma) been in Fairhaven?
A. Just two weeks to the day.
Q. You did not visit in Fairhaven?
A. No sir.

Emma Trial Testimony
Q. How long had you been in Fairhaven?
A. Just two weeks.
Q. And you were visiting?
A. Mrs. Brownell and her daughter.
Q. Had you seen Miss Lizzie during the two weeks?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When?
A. Well, I can't tell you what day it was. . . she had been at Fairhaven.
Q. Was it on her way over to or back from Marion?
A. Oh, I do know. She went to New Bedford when I went to Fairhaven, and I think it was the Saturday following our going Thursday.
Q. That is, she went to New Bedford the same day you went to Fairhaven?
A. Yes sir

If both ladies are telling the truth, I can only think of one explanation....they visited in New Bedford (or anywhere not in Fairhaven) and Lizzie was been a bit ornery in her answer. For the more conspiratorial minded, perhaps they visited Uncle John in South Dartmouth (just south of New Bedford). I recall a newspaper article that reported the sisters visited the home where Morse was staying. This story was never verified to my knowledge.

Anyway, tossing out a sub-topic to see what you all think.

Re: What were Lizzies activities July 23rd?

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:53 pm
by MaryM
camgarsky4 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:48 am We all spend so much time dissecting August 4th, but I am thinking that understanding what happened in the days leading up to August 4th will be equally telling. I tend to be flexible on the timing of events because that is easy to confuse. However, specific recollections of events are more meaningful and I give great merit to them when evaluating Borden info.

Most of us know that Saturday, July 23rd might have been a key date for the murders, because that is when Lizzie was in New Bedford and shopping alone. We also know that Knowlton identified two different pharmacists in New Bedford that he had summoned to testify in the trial and there are solid indications that Knowlton believed Lizzie had attempted to purchase Prussic Acid at these pharmacies. Did she visit those pharmacies on the 23rd? Did she acquire a hatchet that day? Did she purchase dress cloth to make a duplicate dress? These are all possibilities that have been debated.

What makes the 23rd even more fascinating is that Lizzie may not have been forthcoming about her activities that day.

Below is testimony by Emma and Lizzie that directly contradict:

Lizzie Inquest testimony
Q. How long had she (Emma) been in Fairhaven?
A. Just two weeks to the day.
Q. You did not visit in Fairhaven?
A. No sir.

Emma Trial Testimony
Q. How long had you been in Fairhaven?
A. Just two weeks.
Q. And you were visiting?
A. Mrs. Brownell and her daughter.
Q. Had you seen Miss Lizzie during the two weeks?
A. Yes sir.
Q. When?
A. Well, I can't tell you what day it was. . . she had been at Fairhaven.
Q. Was it on her way over to or back from Marion?
A. Oh, I do know. She went to New Bedford when I went to Fairhaven, and I think it was the Saturday following our going Thursday.
Q. That is, she went to New Bedford the same day you went to Fairhaven?
A. Yes sir

If both ladies are telling the truth, I can only think of one explanation....they visited in New Bedford (or anywhere not in Fairhaven) and Lizzie was been a bit ornery in her answer. For the more conspiratorial minded, perhaps they visited Uncle John in South Dartmouth (just south of New Bedford). I recall a newspaper article that reported the sisters visited the home where Morse was staying. This story was never verified to my knowledge.

Anyway, tossing out a sub-topic to see what you all think.
Re: ” Oh, I do know. She went to New Bedford when I went to Fairhaven, and I think it was the Saturday following our going Thursday.” So Emma is saying they both left on the same Saturday, she to Fairhaven and Lizzie on a day out to New Bedford, am I correct in assuming “following our going Thursday” referred to the two going to or returning from Marion Thursday? Even these days some of us in New England use circular turns of phrase, but it can be misleading. Another question.. for a trip to Fairhaven, as they didn’t have a family horse and carriage, did Emma take a train? Would she and Lizzie have taken trains to their separate destinations? What testimony did the pharmacists from New Bedford give, did they or other shop keepers the police questioned divulge her purchases that day? What answers did the police extract from her during questioning?

Re: What were Lizzies activities July 23rd?

Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:40 pm
by camgarsky4
Thursday July 21st, Lizzie and Emma went to New Bedford and Emma on to fairhaven. Lizzies went alone to shop on Saturday. However, Emma’s comment implieds the sisters connected on Saturday which raises the question. Spencer, “Case against Lizzie Borden”, does a good job describing how the two New Bedford pharmacist might have played into the case. Page 726-729.