Lizzie’s question

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Inspector
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Lizzie’s question

Post by Inspector »

What to make of Lizzie asking Bridget if she locked the cellar door.
This happened Friday August 5 earlY AM in front of investigators.

Page 35-36 witness statements
arrived at Police Station. I carried the axes and hatchet openly in my hand.
About 7.15 A. M. I returned to the Borden house, went into the house with Officer Doherty. Bridget Sullivan and J. V. Morse were in the kitchen. I also inquired of Morse about his relatives in New Bedford and vicinity. I also inquired about Mrs. Borden’s relatives. Morse called Miss Emma, and she answered the questions. While I was talking to Miss Emma, Miss Lizzie came in. She said “Bridget, are you sure the
35

back cellar door was fastened?” Bridget said “Yes marm.”
camgarsky4
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by camgarsky4 »

I've always viewed Lizzie's Friday morning question to be another case of her planting 'seeds' or trying to control the narrative.

Or perhaps she exited via the cellar door on the way outside after AJB's killing (maybe to toss the Crowe roof hatchet :smile:) and was seen by Lubinsky on the way back in. She could be puzzled as to how the door was bolted when she thought she left it open. Of course, continuing that thread of thinking might explain why Morse stated he thought he saw the cellar door open, but other witnesses confirmed it was closed. That would add some credence to folks who think Morse and Lizzie were in on it together.

I tend to lean towards the former idea, but I do wonder about it.
Inspector
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by Inspector »

The whole thing is kinda strange, and I think “planting seeds “ sums it pretty good. Especially considering Bridget must have been woken up early AM on Friday 5th , and brought back to Second Street, since she didn’t spend the night there. I wonder if Lizzie took the time to say hello to Bridget, because Lizzie wasn’t up this early on most days .

Kat had a great article in the Hatchet where she tells about the cellar, very informative,and she has her hand on what looks to be the original cellar door bolt.

I have a feeling you are suspicious about the Crowe shed hatchet .
If you had 5 minutes starting when Lizzie hollered for Bridget, what would you do?

I’ve always thought I’d run out to Crowes shed, and look on that roof, maybe get the Prince Albert next, and check in the folds, not that it would solve, but just to see.

I have a few more too, but, only 5 minutes. 🧐
camgarsky4
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by camgarsky4 »

I'm very intrigued by the Crowe hatchet.

As gross as it would be, I'd first go look at AJB. I've thought it a bit odd that Lizzie specifically held Bridget back from looking at Andrew. You know how fast your mind can work in a crisis....well that almost feels like Lizzie had a sudden realization that something needed 'tiddying up' once Bridget made it downstairs. She was then sent to fetch the doc and then Alice. Perhaps to create time for Lizzie to address whatever needed addressing.

I would incorporate the Prince Albert with that 'look see'. How clean were Lizzie's hands? Too clean, like they had been washed very recently?

Then I would very carefully take a look at what Lizzie was wearing!! :grin:
:axeman:
Inspector
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by Inspector »

Interesting you’d mention Lizzie sending Bridget away, I thought about that myself, but kinda dismissed it since Mrs Churchill said Lizzie was just standing in the doorway, made me think she didn’t leave the doorway when she spotted her.
Could be something there though, very possible.
Now washing the hands, that’s a good one, and she’s right there by the sink.
The clothes, yes. A thorough full body search including hair, and what she had on.

I’d ask Lizzie, what screen needs repair?
If I’m correct, it was Mrs Churchill who testified that Lizzie said she got some tin to fix “my” screen.
Of coarse all the screens could be considered hers.
camgarsky4
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by camgarsky4 »

Another Lizzie riddle.

Hearing Abby come home.

Per Lizzie, she went out to the barn just moments after telling her father that Abby had gone out of the house to care for a sick friend.
20-30 minutes later, she returned to the house and found her slaughtered father.
She immediately went to bottom of stairs and called down Bridget.
She immediately sent Bridget for Bowen and Alice. Churchill came over.
After a couple more minutes, Bridget offers to go check at Abby's stepsisters house and Lizzie immediately stops her by saying she thought perhaps she had heard Abby get home. Please go check and find her.

When during this timeframe that Lizzie provided, did she hear Abby arrive home? Why didn't she exclaim aloud, I just heard Abby and then go to Abby?

This is one of those 'ah ha' moments to me that set Lizzie out as the most obvious suspect. The note is another of those moments. Too bad she didn't need to explain those statements and actions on the stand.
Inspector
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by Inspector »

It must have been while Bridget was running around from house to house, but it wasn’t important enough to mention until later. ( sarcasm).
Also, how in the world would Lizzie know it was Abby returning, and not the murderer?
She hears someone, knows her dad is killed, but just assumed it wasn’t the assassin.
The fact she stayed in the house is crazy.

have to side with you, because I still remember the first time I read about the note, and thought okay that card won’t play.
I’m sure you’ve read about the family member who supposedly sent the note, and it was to inform Abby she didn’t need to come over to babysit her kids while the woman went to some Fall River outing.
I can’t recall the family members name.
But, supposedly Abby did leave, and returned which is absurd.
camgarsky4
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by camgarsky4 »

That was Abbie Potter, Abby's niece, who was a very young child in 1892. This revelation first came to light in Judge Sullivan's book "Goodbye Lizzie Borden". I just starting reading it last night (yes, I am going back and forth with 40 Whacks). I'll post tomorrow after I read the Abbie Potter interview chapter.
Inspector
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Re: Lizzie’s question

Post by Inspector »

I hope you enjoy Sullivan’s book, that was one of my favorites, and it seemed he was willing to give his opinion on her guilt, and at the time I felt like he looked at the evidence like a judge, as well as using common sense.
Thanks for the info on the source.
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