A Quick Once Over

[Allen]

There is something I have often wondered about when it comes to this case. Bridget and those windows! She takes the time to wash them and rinse them on the outside, on the lower level of the house. She only gives the inside of the sitting room windows and the diningroom windows a brief once over, completely ditching the parlor. And what about the kitchen? She never mentions washing the kitchen windows on the inside.None of the upstairs windows were cleaned that day at all. Was this her normal routine of washing the windows? Did she take a little less care that day because she was ill? Or was she only washing the windows to be out of the house long enough for Lizzie to do away with Abby? What thoughts do you all have on this?

[Smudgeman]

Bridget and the windows is a problem for me as well. We only have Lizzie & Bridgets word to rely on as to the washing of windows. How do we know that Abby ever asked them to be washed? I think Thursday was the usual day for such chores, but it would also make a good excuse for Bridget to be outside for a period of time to watch the house. She is seen outside, but maybe the washing of the windows was a prop, or staged if you will?

[Pippi]

Or, perhaps she was to finish the washing of the windows in the afternoon and murder took precedence? After all it was hot, and it wouldn't be unheard of for someone to take breaks in between window washing, even if only to do other chores to break up the routine.

[Audrey]

Inquest/John Morse/

Q. Did you take notice what the servant girl was doing when you went out?
A. I dont know. I heard Mrs. Borden tell her at breakfast time, if it was so she could, she would like for her to
wash the windows.

[Kat]

The people outside that day wandering around the yard never said they saw any evidence of Bridget washing the windows- like mud or footprints, when they were looking for footprints.
No outside or inside kitchen windows were washed- and you're right about no inside parlour windows being washed.

Why do you say the inside windows were given a "brief once-over?"
No one saw Bridget washing windows at all. Pettee saw her standing near the front door with window-washing stuff, but not washing. Churhill saw her throw water on one parlour window- both about 10 am.. That's it. All the passersby don't mention her.

Another odd thing is that Bridget said she was given the instruction around 9 in the dining room when she last saw Abby. Yet Morse says he heard the order at breakfast, c. 7:15 a.m. I've never believed Morse- who can gainsay him other than Bridget?

Also, when Bridget started the inside windows, she did not start in the same order she started the outside. She started at the second interior sitting room window nearest the street and that was when Andrew came home. That would be the window from which she could see south toward Spring Street- the route Andrew was taking home.

[john]

who uses dead people's testimony for actions or assumptions?
lizzie and bridget
the "note," and the instructions to wash the windows.
also, andrew's mission, though sick, to the post office - "was there anything for me?" - "please mr. postman look and see, if there's a card or a letter for me...................."

[Allen]

The people outside that day wandering around the yard never said they saw any evidence of Bridget washing the windows- like mud or footprints, when they were looking for footprints.
No outside or inside kitchen windows were washed- and you're right about no inside parlour windows being washed.

Why do you say the inside windows were given a "brief once-over?"
No one saw Bridget washing windows at all. Pettee saw her standing near the front door with window-washing stuff, but not washing. Churhill saw her throw water on one parlour window- both about 10 am.. That's it. All the passersby don't mention her.

Another odd thing is that Bridget said she was given the instruction around 9 in the dining room when she last saw Abby. Yet Morse says he heard the order at breakfast, c. 7:15 a.m. I've never believed Morse- who can gainsay him other than Bridget?

Also, when Bridget started the inside windows, she did not start in the same order she started the outside. She started at the second interior sitting room window nearest the street and that was when Andrew came home. That would be the window from which she could see south toward Spring Street- the route Andrew was taking home.

"Quick once over". I meant it seemed to me she did not really give the inside of the windows much more than a quick wipe down.She did not even clean them all. She seemed unconcerned with cleaning the windows on the inside to me, considering all the attention she gave them according to her testimony.Could it be because she wasn't feeling well, and was in a hurry to get upstairs to her room and lay down a bit? Or was there another reason? Maybe she never washed the windows at all, because we only have the testimony Bridget and Lizzie provided that she did.

[Kat]

I thought maybe you meant because Bridget took much less time doing the inside of the windows than the outside. I wasn't sure if that's what you were getting at.
c. 9:30- 10:30 outside, yet 10:30 to 10:55 inside?
She seems to have washed the same windows inside as out except for the parlour.
Her testimony doesn't sound like she was slap-dash though, but the timing does.
Another thing- Lizzie doesn't really mention seeing Bridget do the windows, does she? Lizzie can't ever remember seeing Bridget that morning doing windows, and supposedly barely saw her except when she let in Andrew.
Bridget remembers Lizzie but Lizzie doesn't remember Bridget. That has always seemed odd.

[Audrey]

It would have been easier to wash the insides.

They might not have been as dirty...

She didn't have to fling water on them...

If she thought Abby was gone she might have been happy to give them a lick and a promise so that she could relax. She has already thrown up.

I think Bridget was worn out. She as sick, hot and had been cleaning windows outside.

It makes total sense to me that she layed down without removing her shoes. The woman flung herself on that bed....

[Kat]

Actually, since Bridget did talk to Mary Doolan before she started the windows or during her beginning of the windows at 9:30, maybe that took up some of that time. Add to that she washed the outside parlour windows (if she did any washing at all) but not the interior parlour, maybe that accounts for less time difference as well.
I still don't know from where the brief, barely-done-interior- job idea comes from, but the timing might match up more than I first thought.

[Haulover]

on the "bridget saw lizzie/lizzie saw no bridget" issue: this has to be a clue to something, of course.

but i thought lizzie only admits to seeing bridget when she first came down that morning. it would seem insensible since lizzie says she thinks maggie let him in the door--yet she still does not admit to seeing her there specifically at that time, saying only that maggie had come in and gone upstairs. lizzie says maggie had told her she was going to wash windows, but she did not see her.

it's when andrew comes home that lizzie denies seeing maggie (as though maggie opened the front door and vanishes) -- whereas for bridget, it is at that time that she has more interaction with lizzie than at any other part of the morning.

about the windows........yes, that chat with mary, no telling how long they gossiped. also, bridget probably understood that the main dirt abby had noticed was on the outside as opposed to inside -- and could get by without doing much inside.

i like that idea of bridget watching for andrew through the sitting room window. "hey, lizzie! he's coming""

[Allen]

Actually, since Bridget did talk to Mary Doolan before she started the windows or during her beginning of the windows at 9:30, maybe that took up some of that time. Add to that she washed the outside parlour windows (if she did any washing at all) but not the interior parlour, maybe that accounts for less time difference as well.
I still don't know from where the brief, barely-done-interior- job idea comes from, but the timing might match up more than I first thought.

Where it comes from is inside she took the rag and wiped down a total of four windows. She didn't do all of the windows on the inside, which I still don't understand. Why didnt she give the parlor and the kitchen a pass as well? She didn't do all of the windows on the outside either. But as for the inside, maybe not slap dash, but how long can it take to simply wipe down the upper and lower part of the window with a rag? In my opinion the most time consuming part would be getting on and off the step ladder for wetting and rinsing the rag for the upper portions. 10:30 to 10:55 inside? Does this time line also take into account the time it took to put away cleaning implements for washing the outside of the windows, and the time it took to prepare to clean the inside of the windows?

Ok I am not providing all this testimony just for information on Bridgets washing of the windows. And the dots indicate merely that I left out a few questions between where the testimony picks up again. There are some things about her testimony that have always troubled me, besides the windows. Little nagging details if you will. The questions it raises for me are as follows:

1. Where was Lizzie when Bridget came into the house? She apparently was no where in the down stairs part of the house. Bridget states that she "came down down stairs". Lizzie claims not to have been upstairs, well in one of her versions of the story anyway.

2. She first claims Andrew sat down in the chair at the head of the lounge, and then sees "the man" sitting on the lounge, and the chair at the head of the lounge. A small inconsistency here?

3. Bridget says Lizzie and her father "had some talk between them which I didn't understand or pay any attention to". Did she mean she didn't hear the conversation well enough to know what they were discussing except for the part about Abby going out, or that they were really talking about something she didn't understand so she didn't really pay attention to it? That she didn't know what they were talking about, so she paid it no mind?

5. Where did Lizzie go after talking to Andrew? Did she go back upstairs?

6.What did Andrew go upstairs to his room for? Was he looking for Abby?

7 A) Why was Lizzie wondering if Bridget was going out?
B) Was Bridget in the habit of going out in the afternoon, when there were surely things she was required to do around the house?

8.Lizzie did not seem to stay long at her ironing. She did not iron much longer than it took Bridget to wash down one window. Yet, she claims to have gotten frustrated because her flats would not get hot. Did they even have time to?

9. Did anyone see Bridgets cloths hanging on the back of the stove?

10. Was there a reason Bridget didn't go into the parlor? No one did, it would've been very easy to store anything to do with the murder there in between the time Abby died and the time Andrew was killed,including a person.




Bridgets trial testimony page 232 -233.

Q.When you had complete the rinsing of the windows, if I may call it that, what did you do?
A.I went into the kitchen. I put the handle of the brush away in the barn and brought the pail and dipper in and put the dipper behind and I got the hand basin and went into the sitting room to wash the sitting room windows.

Q.Did you go to the barn to put away the the handle of the brush before you went in, or after?
A.Before I went in.

Q. Before you went in?
A. Yes, sir.

Q.Now I think you said you took the basin in there?
A. Yes sir, a hand dish in the sink.

Q.What else did you take?
A. A step ladder in the kitchen.

Q. Anything else?
A. No, sir, except a cloth I had to wash with.

Q.When you came into the kitchen after having put your brush handle in the barn, did you do anything to the screen door?
A.I hooked it.

Q. After you had got your washing materials into which room did you go first?
A. The sitting room.

Q. I may ask if you washed the inside of the parlor windows?
A.No, sir.

Q.You did not go into the parlor, as I understand it?
A. No, sir, I did not.

Q.Which window did you begin to wash in the inside?
A.The next window to the front door.

Q.In which room?
A. In the sitting room.

Q. How much of that work had you done before you heard something?
A. I had the upper part of the window done.

Q.Done?
A. Yes, sir.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bridgets testimony page 235-236

Q. After you had let Mr. Borden in, where did you go?
A.I went on washing my window.

Q.In the sitting room again?
A.Yes, sir.

Q.Where did he go?
A. And he came into the sitting room and went into the dining room.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Did you see what Mr. Borden did when he went into the dining room?
A.He sat down in a chair at the head of the lounge.

Q.And what did you continue to do?
A. I was washing my windows. I went into the kitchen after something; I see the man sitting on the lounge, and the chair at the head of the lounge.

Q.In the dining room?
A. Yes, sir.

Q.Did anyone else appear at that time?
A.Miss Lizzie came down stairs, probably five minutes-- I couldn't tell exactly the time; she came down through the entry, the front entry, into the diningroom, I suppose to her father.

Q. And in going to the dining room did she have to go through the sitting room in which you were in.
A.Yes, sir.

Q. What did she say, if anything, to her father?
A. I heard her ask her father if he had any mail, and they had some talk between them which I didn't understand or pay any attention to, but I heard her tell her father that Mrs. Borden had a note and had gone out.

Q.What is the next thing that happened?
A. The next thing I remember Mr. Borden went into the kitchen and come in the kitchen door, come from the kitchen into the sitting room and took a key off the mantel piece and went up the stairs to his room.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bridgets trial testimony page 327+

Q. As he sat down in the sitting room, what did you begin to do?
A.I began to wash the dining room windows.

Q.At the time he came down and you were passing from the sitting room into the dining room, was Miss Lizzie Borden there?
A. I don't remember to see her.

Q.You began washing your two windows in the diningroom did you?
A.Yes, sir.

Q.While you were washing those windows did anyone appear in the dining room?
A.Yes, sir.

Q.Who was it?
A. Miss Lizzie.

Q.From what room did she appear? Through what door did she appear?
A.She came from the sitting room into the dining room.

Q.Will state what she did after she came in?
A.She came into the dining room, went into the kitchen and took out an ironing board and placed it on the dining room table and commenced to iron.

Q.You in the meantime washing the windows?
A.I was washing the last window in the dining room.

Q.Did she say anything to you, or you to her, while you were doing that,and she was doing what you describe?
A. She said "Maggie are you going out this afternoon?" I said "I don't know; I might and I might not, I don't feel very well." She says "If you do go out,be sure and lock the door, for Mrs. Borden has gone out on a sick call, and I might go out, too." Says I, " Miss Lizzie, who is sick?" " I don't know; she had a note this morning; it must be in town."

Q. Did you complete the washing of your two windows in the dining room?
A. Yes, sir , I washed them before I got through with them.

Q.And in the mean time did she go on ironing whatever she was ironing?
A.Yes, sir; she got through, and I went out in the kitchen.

Q.What was she ironing?
A.Handkerchiefs.

Q.And where were the flats she was ironing with?
A. In the stove, in the kitchen.

Q.Do you know anything of the condition of the fire at that time?
A.No, sir; I could not tell how it was.

Q. You say you finished your washing of the windows and went into the kitchen?
A.Yes, sir.

Q.What did you do in the kitchen?
A.I washed out the cloths that I had washing the windows,and hung them behind the stove. As I got through, Miss Lizzie came out and said, "There is a cheap sale of dress goods at Sargent's this afternoon, at eight cents a yard." I don't know that she said "this afternoon" but "today". And I said, "I am going to have one."

Q. What did you do then?
A. I went upstairs to my room.

[Allen]

One more thought, that has to do with weighing Lizzie's testimony against that of the other witnesses. Especially her inquest testimony. Because when we consider Bridget's story against Lizzie's questions will arise about who to believe. Some think Lizzie's inquest testimony was so inconsistent due to the meds that had been administered to her. What doesn't seem to be taken into account is the fact that she begins to contradict herself before any meds were even administered, she begins to contradict herself almost at once.

[Kat]

Whew! That was some long post!
Pretty clear tho and thorough, with the added testimony. Thanks.
I had to print it out to read it- it was 5 pages!

--6.What did Andrew go upstairs to his room for? Was he looking for Abby?- Allen

I would like to know why Bridget said Andrew went upstairs and Lizzie says she is sure he didn't?

[diana]

Doesn't Bridget contradict a lot of people, though? She says Abby told her to wash the windows around 9 a.m. while Morse claims it was around 7 or 7:30 a.m. She says she only washed the windows once or twice a month -- Mrs. Churchill says it was weekly. She insists at trial that she never testified she saw Lizzie cry at the time of the murders -- although court stenographer, Annie White is able to read back inquest testimony wherein Bridget did say Lizzie was crying when she called the maid downstairs.

I'm not taking anything Bridget says as gospel.

[Kat]

Well that's a good answer.
But I guess I'll never know if Andrew went upstairs.
Is Bridget lying, confused or perverse?

[Allen]

There could be a good reason for the discrepancy there. I do not know a reason either one of them would want to lie about that, it seems to be nothing of importance. I still tend to believe Bridget over Lizzie.Bridget's story has only small discrepancies. I think anyone's story will have small or slight ones due to fading memory. But Lizzie's testimony, the only consistancies there are the inconsistancies, and that was given soon after the fact. I think it's possible Lizzie says he didn't go upstairs because she didn't actually see him go upstairs. So how could she say he did? Where did Lizzie go after talking to Andrew herself? She wasn't in the kitchen, dining room , or sitting room if you do go by Bridgets story. Did she go back upstairs? If she did, what for? Was it to get the handkerchiefs she supposedly wanted to iron?

[Kat]

Here is the testimony from Lizzie at the inquest so people can decide. Lizzie's answer (in bold) has had me thinking she is adament that Andrew did not go upstairs. That's why I wondered "Why? What's upstairs?"

Q. Did he not go up stairs to his own room before he sat down in the sitting room?
A. I did not see him go.
Q. He had the key to his room down there?
A. I don't know whether he had it; it was kept on the shelf.
Q. Don’t you remember he took the key and went into his own room and then came back?
85 (42)

A. No, sir.
Q. You don’t remember anything of that kind?
A. No, sir; I do not think he did go up stairs either.
Q. You will swear he did not?
A. I did not see him.
Q. You swear you did not see him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You were either in the kitchen or sitting room all the time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He could not have gone up without he had gone through the kitchen?
A. No, sir.

--At the inquest, Bridget was examined first and Lizzie knew that. I'm taking Lizzie's testimony in that context of her not knowing what Bridget said before she, Lizzie, had her say. So a lot of the questions put to Lizzie can be based on Bridget's version of events.

[john]

If Mr. Borden did go upstairs it would cut down the window considerably, probably by 4 or 5 minutes. Also, it would allow him to lessen himself of whatever it was (lock or whatever) that he was testimonially seen to be carrying when he entered the house yet was never found or determined (if it was left downstairs surely some one would have noticed it).
This would only be important if someone wanted to place themselves somewhere else. Lizzie said she helped her Father to the couch before she went outside to eat pears and find lead and look out the barn window. If her Father actually lay down at 11:00, that doesn't give her much time to look for lead.
Just offhand I'd guess Mr. Borden didn't like coming home and finding the window's being washed and wanted to be away. I'd heard that Bridget didn't wash the parlor windows because Andrew was in there sitting or about to nap.
If Bridget and Mrs. Churchill, or whoever, checked Andrew's and Abby's room for Abby, where did they get the key? Dr. Dolan? he was gone - Lizzie? - she said she wasn't in the parlor - Bridget and Mrs. Churchill also said they weren't in the parlor.
I suspect Lizzie had the key - why? - think.

[Kat]

What have you read so far? I am asking because you have some odd little statements to make- not bad, just odd. A little info that's just a bit "off." Can you tell me what you've read?

The parlour was kept private- at least there is no testimony that anyone went in there Thursday to use it that I can think of... The soonest I can think of is when Lizzie & Emma met with the Marshall and the Mayor Saturday, I think.
What happened, according to Bridget, is yes Andrew seems to not want to be in the room which is being window-washed, and moved accordingly. But that means when Bridget was doing the sitting room, Andrew was in the dining room- and when Bridget was about to move to the dining room Andrew went upstairs and then went to the sitting room when he came back down, where he was finally killed.

The key to get into the elder Borden's room was brought out of out of the sitting room and given to Bridget by Bowen, in order for her to get a sheet. (per Churchill, T350-i371)

[john]

It's good to see that someone is reading this information closely - I was beginning to wonder. What do you consider "off" besides the key which was a dupe.

[Kat]

Fer instance: I'd heard that Bridget didn't wash the parlor windows because Andrew was in there sitting or about to nap.--john

I wondered where you "heard" that Andrew was in the parlour Thursday. But there have been other things I've asked you about that you said you'd get back to me...

[john]

If you look back, I admitted early on that some of my sources had been axed. So I rely on memory at times which can be faulty. And, look back again, I wasn't really interested in "Lizzie" except that at first I saw that she couldn't have done it and felt sorry for her. Read where I contributed to the Fall River Humane Society in her name, and as far as I know the plaque with both my name and hers on it is still there. In looking into it a little deeper I saw that she must have been in some way involved, so I try to look at the crime as a detective should have, and may seem harsh at times. For example, if someone got in Emma's face for about 30 hours as to why she happened to be for the first time in her life on an extended vacation when her Father and Stepmother were killed, I think she would have rang more true. But we don't know that, or what she might have said, so all we can look at is what we have. I think the nature of how the crime may have come about and conflicts in testimony have been largely overlooked. For just an example, Uncle Morse is considered senile by most of the people who attend this forum (excellent forum) and Mr. Borden supposedly consulted with him on business matters. Duh.
Now I'm sure that the exact seconds that trains arrive and the joints in wood shelves are important in some way to this crime, and keep things going in Fall River tourist wise, but I am more interested in solving the thing.
As I said origionally, my only initial interest was that Lizzie was unjustly ostracized, but then I looked at her obfuscance and removal from reality, and saw an enigma.
Unfortunately, enigmas are usually just that. The strangest think about many true crime puzzles is that they even happened, "Lizzie," of course included.
I think I've been open from the beginning and have raised some questiong that have never been raised before in the Borden crimes, and mostly to make people think a little. I have more questions and will try to make them think a little more. For just an example: Lizzie said that Mrs. Borden had received a note about someone being sick. If that was true then Abby must have thought about going out Thursday. Abby did up the guest room first instead of preparing to go out. Yet Lizzie said Abby would be going shopping for dinner (as outlined by me earlier). Now if Abby really had to go shopping and on a sick call "in town" (in town according to Lizzie's conjecture) and had to change her dress would Abby have given herself enough time? Abby was found dead in an old dress. That doesn't prove anything but it means perhaps Abby had no intention of going outside (the note perhaps said only that guests were coming) and Abby was just going through her day.
I know I've made some bombastic statements and that I should be called for them, but if someone thinks that I don't know what happened why don't they ask me what I think happened? It's OK because I wouldn't tell them anyway.
It appears to me that you, Kat, are the only one who is thinking.
If you think I'm bad junk you certainly have the button, and I'll continue to be a happy person - you sound very nice!
john

[Allen]

I think I've been open from the beginning and have raised some questiong that have never been raised before in the Borden crimes, and mostly to make people think a little. I have more questions and will try to make them think a little more. For just an example: Lizzie said that Mrs. Borden had received a note about someone being sick. If that was true then Abby must have thought about going out Thursday. Abby did up the guest room first instead of preparing to go out. Yet Lizzie said Abby would be going shopping for dinner (as outlined by me earlier). Now if Abby really had to go shopping and on a sick call "in town" (in town according to Lizzie's conjecture) and had to change her dress would Abby have given herself enough time? Abby was found dead in an old dress. That doesn't prove anything but it means perhaps Abby had no intention of going outside (the note perhaps said only that guests were coming) and Abby was just going through her day.
john

Actually the question as to why Abby did not change her dress has been raised before in regard to having received a note calling her to the bedside of a sick friend. It was raised, at least once that I know if, by theebmonique in a thread called the "BORDEN BOOK CLUB (Lincoln / Book 3)" during our discussion of Lincoln's book. Below is an excerpt containing the passage from Lincoln's book in italics, Tracy's comments in bold, and my response. It is a very valid question. Why didn't Abby change her clothes? Unless she wanted to wait until she was finished tidying up the guest room before changing into good street clothes.(If she ever really went up to clean the guest room.) That does not make much sense to me if she gotten the note calling her to the side of a sick friend. Why would she wait after receiving such a note? This is, in principle,the same as the question raised in regards to why Emma seemed to take her time returning home after receiving the telegram on the day of the murders. The same principle should be applied to both situations in my opinion.

57. (Pg. 181) And when Knowlton reminded her of the note again, she so belatedly thought to explain Abby’s old white calico in which she died.“I said to her, ‘Won’t you change your dress before you go out ?’ She said, ‘No, this one is good enough.’”To one who grew up in provincial mill-town society, this touch is the clumsiest of all Lizzie’s lies The thing is anthropologically impossible. Even, for a social equal, Abby would have changed to go out; but if - as I have seen it suggested - poor lonely Abby, so ungiven to corporal works of mercy, had been called to a humbler bedside, she would have found it flatly unthinkable that she go out dressed beneath her station and “not looking right.” And nobody in that whole taboo-ridden society could have known it better than Lizzie Andrew Borden. Has anyone besides Lincoln suggested that Abby was “poor, lonely (and fat) Abby” ? As much as is stated that Lizzie did not care much for Abby, that doesn’t mean that Abby wasn’t a kind enough person to dropped what she was doing to help a sick friend...or to go to the bank to meet her husband, even if it meant not changing her clothes. If she was really going to the bank, maybe she thought that the “ not changing clothes” thing would keep Lizzie off the trial even more ?

Here I'm inclined to believe Lincoln. I know how you all are about agreeing with Lincoln , but on this point I do. I do think this is how things worked at the time when you were female from most of the reading I have done about victorian etiquette and customs. And the best example to support this is Alice Russell took the time to change her clothes before rushing to Lizzie's side.

page 380/i402

Q. Upon the next morning, August 4th, did you receive a visit from Bridget Sullivan?
A. Yes, sir.
-----------------
also page 380/i402

Q. What were you doing when she came?
A. I was at my work.

Q.In consequence of anything that she said did you go anywhere?
A.Yes, sir.

Q.Where did you go?
A.I went upstairs.

Q.And what did you do upstairs?
A.Changed my dress.

Q. What did you do then?
A.I went over to Mr. Borden's.

Q.Speak up please.
A. I went over to the Borden house.

[Kat]

Yes, I remember all that. You're not trying to get out of answering my question now are you?

You have a pretty amazing grasp of the details of this case tho you did say you were dabbling here.
The little details are what caught my attention after pondering all the rest that you say. I am sincerely asking you what you have read- it can't be listed?
Is it a lot- is it a little? Is it authors and newspapers and/or source documents? Who is your favorite author on Lizzie? -that sort of thing.

I wished that you had introduced yourself in the Stay To Tea section too. To know a little more about you.

[john]

Ok Kat, lets make a deal. If someone figures out the key I will tell all.

[john]

OK Kat, lets make a deal.. If someone figures out the key I will tell all.

[john]

Oops.

[theebmonique]

Oh John...you are such a tease. You are never going to tell.


Tracy...

[Audrey]

Is Kat going to put on some Rolling Stones albums and dance around her house trying to figure out that the key is the key????

If so.... Can I buy a ticket???

[lydiapinkham]

Whatever is the point of posting statements as "dupes"? I for one dislike such games.

--Lyddie

[monarchrn]

Amen lydiapinkham...

[john]

The point about posting "dupes" is that in this program if another page is about to start, and someone has posted something, instead of going to the new page as reference, it goes to the old page. I'm not the only one that's done it.

[Kat]

I didn't know what a "dupe" was. Appreciate the explanation.

[john]

Dupe is duplicate, as the instance of two postings, or, "to mislead," per Websters, as in my use of the term earlier.
Regarding the Rolling Stones, rock on.

[Allen]

Also, when Bridget started the inside windows, she did not start in the same order she started the outside. She started at the second interior sitting room window nearest the street and that was when Andrew came home. That would be the window from which she could see south toward Spring Street- the route Andrew was taking home.

I found this little interesting bit in the New York Times dated August 14, 1892.

"On her second examination by the police Bridget Sullivan changed her former story in some details. She said that she began to wash the windows at 9:30 o'clock an did not get through until 10:30. During this hour she commanded a full view of all the entrances to the house, and was positive no one entered or departed. Just as she finished she saw Mr. Borden approaching and let him in. "

I wondered if this is ever mentioned anywhere else in the source material?

[Kat]

And if Lizzie was in her room, her window also looked out over the south route from Spring Street which Andrew was taking home. Picture this: Bridget at the south sitting room window looking toward Spring, and Lizzie above her on the second floor also looking out the south window toward Spring Street.
(Maybe another reason Lizzie did not wish to be thought tarrying upstairs?)

--Adds a new dimension to that old phrase: "Just wait until your father gets home!"