Upstairs for the sheets

[Harry]

Susan's post in another thread had me looking at Mrs. Borden's room off the senior Borden's bedroom. This if I remember correctly was where the bed sheets were stored.

Checking Radin's book I found this:

"When Dr. Bowen completed his brief examination, he requested a sheet to cover the body. Bridget said she was too frightened to go up to Borden's bedroom and Mrs. Churchill volunteered to go with her. Dr. Bowen got the key from the sitting-room shelf and Bridget took Mrs. Churchill to the bedroom door and told her in what drawer the sheets were kept. Mrs. Churchill unlocked the door, entered the room alone and got a sheet while Bridget waited outside."

This is the opposite of what happened in their visit to the guest room. There Bridget dashed inside and Addie beat a hasty retreat.

In Pearson's The Trial of Lizzie Borden (page 138+), this appears:

"..[Bridget] said, "I am not going upstairs alone." I had been upstairs already after sheets for Dr Bowen. He wanted a sheet, and I asked him to get the keys in the sitting room, and Mrs Churchill and I went up to Mrs Borden's room and she got two sheets.

Based on these two accounts it was Mrs. Churchill alone who went into the bedroom and took the sheets.

Sometime after, Bridget found her courage on the trip to the guest room and Addie lost hers.

[Kat]

I was looking for the key reference and didn't find it earlier. Now I search for "sheet" and find the problem Dr. Bowen had finding the correct key to the Borden's bedroom!

Witness Statements
12
Churchill's statement:
"When the Doctor returned, he asked for a sheet. Bridget Sullivan, the work girl, was afraid to go up stairs alone, so I went with her. Lizzie said we would find the sheets in the dressing room, which is off of Mrs, Borden’s room. I think we waited for a key to Mrs. Borden’s room, and I think Dr. Bowen went into the sitting room to get it. If I am not mistaken, he first brought out a bunch, but the one wanted was not among them; so he went in again, and returned with a single key. We then went up stairs, and Bridget asked me if two would be enough. I said I think so, one will cover a person. But we brought down two, and gave them to Dr. Bowen."

--She doesn't say who went in and got the sheets, does she?
I'll keep looking. I don't see why Radin or Pearson would know this if it's not in testimony.

[Allen]

Churchill's statement:
"When the Doctor returned, he asked for a sheet. Bridget Sullivan, the work girl, was afraid to go up stairs alone, so I went with her. Lizzie said we would find the sheets in the dressing room, which is off of Mrs, Borden’s room. I think we waited for a key to Mrs. Borden’s room, and I think Dr. Bowen went into the sitting room to get it. If I am not mistaken, he first brought out a bunch, but the one wanted was not among them; so he went in again, and returned with a single key. We then went up stairs, and Bridget asked me if two would be enough. I said I think so, one will cover a person. But we brought down two, and gave them to Dr. Bowen."

Where did the bunch of keys come from?

[Allen]

Mrs. Churchill's inquest testimony page 129:


"......Dr. Bowen said he would like a sheet to cover up Mr. Borden.Bridget was to go and get it. Lizzie told her to go up in a small room adjoining her mother's room, I think she called it a dressing room. I went with Bridget, because she did not want to go alone. I stood in the doorway of the little room while she went to the bureau and took out two sheets. She says to me " is two enough?" I says "I should think plenty". We came downstairs, and Dr. Bowen took one, and the other sheet was laid on the dining room table. I am not sure but she handed me both of the sheets, and I laid one on the dining room table. Dr. Bowen went in, I assume he covered up Mr. Borden next. Then Lizzie said she wished someone would go and try to find Mrs. Borden up stairs, so I went with Bridget. I think Bridget went ahead of me.I got half way up the front stairs, I got just far enough so my head was level with the front entry floor, I turned my head to the left, and in turning my head to the left, I could see straight across the spare bed room floor,, and at the north side of the bed I saw something that looked like the prostrate form of something.I could distinguish nothing, the room was not light, it was a little darker, darker than down stairs.It looked more than any mat would be on the floor. I turned around and went back.I don't know whether I said out loud " that must be her".I think Bridget went up stairs, how far she went, I don't know, because I was in shock......."

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Bridgets trial testimony page 248:

Q. What lead you go up into Mrs. Borden's room? Describe all that was done and said.
A. Dr. Bowen wanted a sheet and I said " I guessed the sheets were up in Mrs. Borden's room, Mrs. Borden's desk where she kept the bed-clothes, and he wanted to get the keys, and I asked Dr. Bowen if he would get the keys off the shelf in the sitting room, and he did so and Miss Russell said she would do anything to help me. She went in and unlocked the door and got two sheets, I guess.

Q. Was it Miss Russell or Mrs. Churchill?
A. Mrs. Churchill.

Q. When you went up with the key from Dr. Bowen from the sitting room, did you find the entrance to Mrs. Borden's sleep-room locked or unlocked?
A. Locked.

Q. When you returned with the sheets did you lock the door?
A. Yes, sir.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Kat]

Thanks for the conflicting statements! I guess we can take our pick, as authors do, as to which female got the sheets.

I believe the bunch of keys probably came from Andrew's pockets. There are a lot of questions asked about those keys of Dr. Dolan- did he rearrange any on the bunch..etc.

[lydiapinkham]

You know, Kat, the discrepancy looks a bit incriminating for Bridget: she says Mrs. Churchill went in and got 2 sheets. Could that be to cover up for the fact that she asked if 2 would be enough (alraeady knowing, perhaps, that there were to corpses to cover)?

--Lyddie

[Kat]

Maybe we can find some more statements- add them up and divide by 2 and whichever lady said it most, they win our belief. I don't know that Mrs. Churchill had ever been upstairs before, so Bridget letting her get the sheets sounds odd.
But, then again, Bridget might have played the dumb, helpless Irish servant card and let Mrs. Churchill dominate the errand.
(By the way- so nice to see you Lyddie!!)

[john]

Was Dr. Bowen really such a boob to, after being directed by Bridget to where the key to Andrew's room was, would fish into Andrew's pocket for a "bunch of keys?"

[Allen]

John you might have a point when it comes to the keys. He states in his testimony that he was told the key was kept on the end of the mantle. So why then did he come out with the bunch of keys? Interesting. It could be theorized he had the keys all along, if someone wanted to argue he was involved. He then "mistakenly" fished them out of Andrew's pockets, as an excuse to return them undetected to the scene. I can see that someone who believed Dr. Bowen might be involved could claim this. I however am skeptical about that. Another question was, if Andrew had keys in his pockets, why couldn't he get into the house? Why did Bridget have to let him in? I reread her testimony about this and a couple of things trouble me other than the fact that Andrew seemed to have keys but could still not get in. Was the key always kept in the lock of the front door so it might be opened? And, well, the words in bold print don't mesh well with me either.

Bridget Sullivan trial testimony page 234-235.

Q.When you got to the front door what did you find the conditions of the locks there?
A. I went to open it, caught it by the knob, the spring lock, as usual, and it was locked. I unbolted it and it was locked with a key.

Q. So there were three locks?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did you do with reference to the lock with the key?
A. I unlocked it. As I unlocked it I said, " Oh pshaw", and Miss Lizzie laughed up stairs, ---Her father was out there on the door step. She was up stairs.

Q.Up stairs; could you tell whereabouts up stairs she was when she laughed?
A.Well, she must be either in the entry or in the top of the stairs, I can't tell which.

Q. Was there any talk between you and Mr. Borden as he came to the door?
A. No, sir; not a word.

Q. I am reminded that one question was unanswered.How many locks on the front door were locked as you went there,--- locks and bolts I mean?
A.There was a bolt, and there was a spring lock, and there was a key.

Q. And those were all locked?
A. Yes, sir.

Q. During the morning hours, usually, was the door kept locked otherwise than by the spring lock?
A. I don't know anything about that door; I don't have nothing to do with it.

[Susan]

Mrs. Borden spoke to Phebe Bowen about having a key; one key, to the front door that "they" took from her. From that I would assume that during the day, only one lock was used on the door. Bridget had to open two locks and slide the bolt, no key could open that bolt from the outside. I'm curious as to why Andrew didn't grumble something to Bridget about why all those damn locks were in use during the day.

[Allen]

The words in bold print don't mesh well to me. Bridget said she "caught it by the knob, the spring lock, as usual" which would imply to me this was a usual habit. " As usual" also implies to me that this was done often. But then she claims "I don't know anything about that door; I don't have nothing to do with it." Why the overkill of locks so that Andrew couldn't even gain entry to his own house? And why does Bridget state so firmly she knew nothing about that door?

[Kat]

I was under the impression that Bowen was confused about what key was needed. That he went first to the body to get a key and ended up with the bunch. Then was directed more clearly by Bridget as to the unusual place that special key was kept: the mantle.

The reference made by Bridget- "as usual" -sounds like a figure of speech. Where something always works a certain way = "as usual." She may not use the front door herself, but she knows sort of what the security measures are, I'd think. If all this seems suspicious tho, it would be interesting if you'all developed this line of thought.

[john]

Good thinking Allen.Lets take it from the top. Andrew comes home, and wants to get into the house. Most people would probably go to the scren door first thinking that someone might be in and out, and left it unlocked. Perhaps he did, and perhaps even banged on the screen door, then went around to the front, and "fumbled." Well, anyway he couldn't get in, and Bridget had to let him in, and there was some comment about "forgot my key." Now if he had his keys, and they just weren't enough to get in the front door, then they would be in his pocket. If he had "forgot" his keys they would be someplace in the house, perhaps the mantle.
Dr. Bowen went back (?) into the sitting room looking for "a key from the mantle" to Andrew's room. I'm not sure this is solid testimony, but maybe, and I'm not going to look back through tons of testimony to find out. Bottom line it doesn't matter. Bowen brought back a "bunch of keys." Now this is important to the mystery, perhaps very important, but there's no way to prove it, because, of course we're trying to solve a perfect crime.
If Lizzie screwed up and had Andrew's room key in her pocket, bringing back a bunch of keys would create a good opportunity for a switcheroo. I always thought that this supposed Bowen knew a lot more than he possibly could have, but from people in this room, I've learned that Bowen probably isn't so pristine. I got the "Knowlton Papers," or some such title, and read that a few minutes after Uncle Morse left his neice place, Dr. Bowen showed up. I about fell off my chair! Since then I have seen it mentioned in a book, but I thought I had found something - I hadn't.
So if Dr. Bowen was dippin' Lizzie he was in up to his neck as soon as he walked into the Borden door on the fatal day, and would probably do anything to dissolve.
Anyway, I agree with Allen, the keys are suspect, but we can't really prove anything by them.

[Allen]

I was under the impression that Bowen was confused about what key was needed. That he went first to the body to get a key and ended up with the bunch. Then was directed more clearly by Bridget as to the unusual place that special key was kept: the mantle.

The reference made by Bridget- "as usual" -sounds like a figure of speech. Where something always works a certain way = "as usual." She may not use the front door herself, but she knows sort of what the security measures are, I'd think. If all this seems suspicious tho, it would be interesting if you'all developed this line of thought.

From all the testimony I have read so far, Dr. Bowen asked where the key could be found, he was told where it was, and he came back with the wrong "bunch of keys". I don't see how he could've mixed up the keys being on the mantle with the keys being in Andrew's pocket. If you stop and think about it, who would want to have to reach into Andrews pocket at that point in time, if they did not have to? He wasn't exactly just laying there taking a nap anymore. All of my senses would be screaming, please don't let me have to fish around in there! I would've been very pleased and relieved to find out they were on the mantle. But then, thats just me. And I know I never use the term "as usual" unless it is something I usually do. To me "as usual" = the usual habit of, or what usually happens. " I had to clean up the mess my daughter made in the bathroom, as usual." or " My brother was late picking me up, as usual". That type of thing. Does anyone else use the term "as usual" in the manner Kat described?

[Kat]

We should get all the "key" testimony out and look at it- not just what is posted here. Then we will get the full picture.
It's a bit odd to start a foundation of thought without all the testimony.

As to the "as usual" phrase- I don't use it- but I'm not 19th century Irish maid. Bridget has some peculiariarities of speech, we must admit. But it could be as you say.

Lizzie palming a key is interesting, because the testimony seems to show someone is very interested in all the keys during questioning.

Andrew supposedly had his keys to the front door, but the bolt kept him out. I believe Mrs. Dr. Kelly thinks she saw him key-in-hand, and Bridget too thought he had a key?

[Allen]

I have read all of the trial testimony of Mrs. Churchill, Dr. Bowen, and Bridget concerning the keys. I have read the inquest testimony of Mrs. Churchill and Dr. Bowen concerning the keys. I still need to consult the testimony of Alice Russell and of course Lizzie, who were also both there, and see what they may have said. I find it a very odd. I will try to post some more of the testimony later this evening. But for right now I have another question I'm wondering about as well. This was already brought up and it got me to thinking. Why did Bridget asked if two sheets would be enough? I know we should maybe stay with one question at a time, but, I do find that very interesting as well. If Dr. Bowen asked for a sheet to place over Andrew's body, why did Bridget think to bring two?

[Kat]

There is also "key" testimony centered around Dr. Dolan and Andrew's pocket contents. The undertaker might be involved as well as an officer -and Witness Statements and Preliminary Hearing, and Jenning's notes has the Abby Borden key comment.
We can all of us be collecting this- thanks for offering! That's good of you.
Should we put it in a new topic?

[john]

Bingo Allen, to use Kat's phrase.
There's testimony which discounts what you said, but v good, because there's testimony which conflicts a lot of issues.
Here's something else - if Dr. Bowen is the Borden family physician, and he finds the head of the family in v bad shape, why would he invite a neighbor in to see the man?

[Susan]

From Lizzie's Inquest, page 61:

Q. Who let your father in?
A. I think he came to the front door and rang the bell, and I think Maggie let him in, and he said he had forgotten his key; so I think she must have been down stairs.

(I always thought that was odd, I think, I think, she was home, if the bell rang I'm sure Lizzie must have heard it if she was down stairs or on the stairs as she says she was. And, I think Maggie let him in? Who else was in the house to do it? According to Lizzie, Mrs. Borden was out with her note, that left her and Bridget in the house, weird. -Susan)

Q. His key would have done him no good if the locks were left as you left them?
A. But they were always unbolted in the morning.

Q. Who unbolted them that morning?
A. I don't think they had been unbolted; Maggie can tell you.

Q. If he had not forgotten his key it would have been no good?
A. No, he had his key and could not get in. I understood Maggie to say he said he had forgotten his key.

Q. You did not hear him say anything about it?
A. I heard his voice, but I don't know what he said.

(Hmmm, Bridget said he didn't say a thing to her about anything-Susan)

Q. I understood you to say he said that he had forgotten his key?
A. No, it was Maggie said he said he had forgotten his key.

Q. Where was Maggie when the bell rang?
A. I don't know, sir.

Q. Where were you when the bell rang?
A. I was in my room up stairs.

Etc, etc, etc

Q. Did he not go up stairs to his own room before he sat down in the dining room?
A. I did not see him go.

Q. He had the key to his room down there?
A. I don't know whether he had it; it was kept on the shelf.

Q. Don't you remember he took the key and went into his own room and then came back?
A. No, sir.

[john]

Are we supposed to believe that Andrew Borden, with all his (?) security, didn't have an extra key to his bedroom on his keyring, and that Lizzie wouldn't know the famous key quickly?
Whose security is it to lock the upstairs dress closet?

[Harry]

Bridget's Preliminary testimony (page 19) re Andrew using his key at the front door:

"Q. What locks on the front door did you find locked when you let him in?
A. The bolt and a common key that I turned on both sides.
Q. Anythingelse?
A. No Sir.
Q. A spring lock?
A. Yes Sir. He had a key.
Q. He unlocked that from the outside?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Was that spring lock set to lock the door up when it was shut?
A. Yes Sir."

[Kat]

It's been surmised that the bedroom key of Abby and Andrew was left on the mantle because there was only one.
That way, if the key was gone, that would mean that Abby or Andrew was in the bedroom and the spouse could then enter without it.
Meaning- it's a shared key- and left out for ease of use by the elder Bordens.
We don't automatically subscribe to the theory that the presence of the key on the mantle was a daily test or reminder of honesty within the family. There are other ways of looking at it other than Legend.

Thanks for the testimony, guys!

[Allen]

Mrs. Borden spoke to Phebe Bowen about having a key; one key, to the front door that "they" took from her. From that I would assume that during the day, only one lock was used on the door. Bridget had to open two locks and slide the bolt, no key could open that bolt from the outside. I'm curious as to why Andrew didn't grumble something to Bridget about why all those damn locks were in use during the day.

Well. I don't know if the key on the mantle was a test or not. Maybe, maybe not. That wasn't really what I had in mind when it came to the keys at the moment. I wasn't really wondering so much about why it was kept on the mantle. I was wondering if Dr. Bowen could've been practicing a little slight of hand with the keys. I am also beginning to wonder if Bridget didn't know more than I thought she did from the very beginning. The more I read her statements, the more inconsistancies I find that I never noticed before. After reading testimony about the locks on the front door I am more confused than ever. Bridget seems to imply there was a key in the lock, which she used while trying to unlock the door to let Andrew in. Then there is some testimony claiming there was no key found in the front door. Andrew had his keys, and he didn't have his keys. Another thing I started to wonder with all this talk of keys is, why didn't Abby have any? If she was supposedly out, how was she expected to get back into the house if they had taken her key? Mainly what I wonder more and more, and I wonder why no one else has mentioned it before now.... How could Lizzie have thought she heard Abby come in, IF SHE COULDN'T GET IN? She had no key, and the front door was locked. Andrew even had to be let in when he came home. She couldn't have simply opened the door to come in. So how could Lizzie so easily claim she heard her come in?

[Kat]

That's a very good point, Allen.
There was a lot of questioning going on about locks and keys- you'd think the prosecution would have gotten the bigger picture.
Maybe they didn't know about Abby's key being taken? It was the defense which had these notations. They got the info from interviewing Mrs. Dr. Bowen. I think Mrs. Dr. Bowen was considered a defense witness.

After the finding of Andrew, tho, maybe everyone assumed the screen door was no longer hooked, with all the comings and goings?

[Allen]

Thats a good point also Kat. Yet, Lizzie stationed herself by that very screen door after Andrew was killed.

[Kat]

Well, since Lizzie didn't exactly say when she thought she heard Abby come in, and because there was so much chaos, you are right that that important question should have been asked at the time. That kind of question would have really pinned her down- she couldn't wriggle out of that one- it might have convicted her- due to the time difference established between the deaths.

Lizzie was either at the screen door, in the kitchen where it meets the hall, or in the dining room, much later, at the outside of the timing when Abby could have been "heard" coming in- The Side Door.

[john]

If the key needed to open the front door was missing from the inside, it would keep someone from getting out, as well as someone from getting in.

[john]

Not only that, but it completely controls the front door. Testimony said that Bridget had to get the key to let Andrew in. Where did she get it from. If she got it from Lizzie there is a major flaw here.
To my way of thinking Lizzie goofed up twice.

[Susan]

[quote="Allen @ Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:00 amIf she was supposedly out, how was she expected to get back into the house if they had taken her key? Mainly what I wonder more and more, and I wonder why no one else has mentioned it before now.... How could Lizzie have thought she heard Abby come in, IF SHE COULDN'T GET IN? She had no key, and the front door was locked. Andrew even had to be let in when he came home. She couldn't have simply opened the door to come in. So how could Lizzie so easily claim she heard her come in?[/quote]

If I remember correctly, Abby had a key to the side door like Bridget did. Kat, do you have that blurb from Phebe Bowen, I don't recall where it is? But, if the side door was open and the screen door was hooked, Abby would be in the same predicament as Andrew, she'd have to go to the front door and ring the bell or knock to be let in the house. There would be no supposing or thinking that maybe Lizzie heard Abby come in.

[Kat]

Not only that, but it completely controls the front door. Testimony said that Bridget had to get the key to let Andrew in. Where did she get it from. If she got it from Lizzie there is a major flaw here.
To my way of thinking Lizzie goofed up twice.

From the topic "KEYS":
Prelim
Bridget
189
Q. What locks on the front door did you find locked when you let him in?
A. The bolt and a common key that I turned on both sides.
Q. Anythingelse?
A. No Sir.
Q. A spring lock?
A. Yes Sir. He had a key.
Q. He unlocked that from the outside?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Was that spring lock set to lock the door up when it was shut?
A. Yes Sir.

--I believe the "common key" was in the door.

The defense statements are in Proceedings, in the Privy, transcribed there see part #4
viewtopic.php?t=37

[Allen]

So there was really no way Abby could just walk in on her own. She would've had to be let in, just as Andrew had. So how could Lizzie claim to hear her come in? A key to the side door would do no good, because the screen door was hooked. She couldn't claim that she heard her come in after she sent Bridget out for Dr. Bowen and Miss Russell, because Lizzie stationed herself by that screen door. She couldn't very well claim to hear her come in while she was supposedly in the barn. And as stated Abby couldn't get in the front on her own. I think that is one definitely undisputed lie that Lizzie is caught in, and no one seemed to call her on it.

[Angel]

Allen, that makes soooo much sense. Abby could not have gotten in the front door, and Lizzie was standing at the screen door. And, like I said in a previous post, if she was innocent and heard something in the front of the house, she would have freaked because she would think the murderer was still in the house, not casually thinking, "Oh, I think Abby just came in."

[Angel]

And, another thing--- if Lizzie thought she heard Abbie come in, wouldn't she call out to her (like she did Bridget and the neighbor) or try to stop her from finding Andrew or warn her or something, instead of letting her wander through the house, and forgetting about her as if Abby was a pet dog coming in from outside? That is, if she was innocent.

[Kat]

"Testimony said that Bridget had to get the key to let Andrew in.- john

I don't recall any "testimony" that Bridget had to "get the key" in order to let in Mr. Borden. Maybe that is the newspapers, or an author? What's the last Borden book you read?

[john]

The Borden Cheese Cookbook. Look back and I reiterated that comment about Bridget and the front door key. I think it must have come from an early newspaper report or something, but I don't have all the books I've read anymore. Could be Speiring, but I'm not sure you consider him credible anyway, and I don't have it.
My incorrectness on loose use of the word "testimony."
If I ever find the statement, we'll do lunch, or I will anyway.

[john]

Took you a while to catch though, Kat. Do you have a lot of oars in the ocean?

[lydiapinkham]

First, Bridget says in her preliminary hearing statement that she has had a key of her own for about a year (see other thread), so there is no reason for her to have trouble unlocking the door.

Second, although Abby could not have gotten into the house before Andrew got home, why couldn't she have gotten in after? We know better, but Lizzie (or some unspecified killer) might have wanted us to think she was killed at the same time as Andrew. Perhaps the implication was supposed to be that the bolt was left off after the fiasco with Andrew's return. Then Abby could return in the nick of time to be killed with Andrew while Lizzie was in the barn. The killer was unlikely to know that the 90 minute delay between killings could be actually be detected, so the bolt [/i]might have been intended to fix the time of the attacks.

--Lyddie

[Allen]

First, Bridget says in her preliminary hearing statement that she has had a key of her own for about a year (see other thread), so there is no reason for her to have trouble unlocking the door.

Second, although Abby could not have gotten into the house before Andrew got home, why couldn't she have gotten in after?
--Lyddie[/i]

At what point during that time would she be able to do so undetected? The front door was found still locked after Andrew was murdered. According to testimony, either Lizzie or Bridget were downstairs at any given time after Andrew back came home. Except when Lizzie said she went to the barn. She couldn't very well say she heard her come in from the barn.If Mrs. Borden had tried to get in the side door, Bridget said she hooked it when she came in to do the inside windows. If she had gotten in the side door, she would've had to walk right by Lizzie, Bridget, or Andrew on her way upstairs. After Andrew's body was discovered Lizzie stationed herself at the side door til Mrs. Churchill came over. Lizzie starts to stumble when she comes to the testimony about Andrew being let in. She must've thought "If father couldn't get in, are they going to believe Abby could?"
It's been pointed out that Lizzie claims she never said she heard Abby come in. We have witnesses who claim she did.

Mrs. Churchill's trial testimony page 129:

"...Then Lizzie said she wished someone would go and try to find Mrs. Borden up stairs, so I went with Bridget."

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page 132:

Q. Have you told all that happened in your presence with relation to the affair?
A. Yes sir.

Q. All that was said in your presence?
A. I cannot tell you when she said it, I am very particular what I tell, she
said once she wished somebody would try to find Mrs. Borden because she thought she heard her come in. Whether she sat on the steps when she said it ,I can't tell you. She said she thought she heard her come in. I cant tell when she told it to me,whether before or after I went after the I went after the Doctor; she said it to me.

Q. You are sure you did hear it?
A. O . yes.

Q.Was that the occassion of your going to look for Mrs. Borden?
A.No sir. After that she said again she wished we would go up stairs and see if we could find Mrs. Borden.

Q. When she said she thought she had heard her come in,was said before she said she wished you would go upstairs?
A.Yes, before that.

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Bridget Sullivan trial testimony page 247-248:

Q. Who had got there then, if any one?
A.When I came from Miss Russell's?

Q.Yes.
A.Mrs. Churchill was in and Dr. Bowen.

Q.Was anyone there at that time except Mrs. Churchill and Dr. Bowen?
A.No, sir--- and Miss Lizzie.

Q.Where were they when you returned from your errand in seeking Miss
Russell?
A.I think Miss Lizzie was in the kitchen with Mrs. Churchill, and Mrs. Churchill and I went into the dining-room,and Dr. Bowen came out from the sitting-room and said, "He is murdered; he is murdered."

Q.What happened then?
A."Oh" I says, " Lizzie if I knew where Mrs. Whitehead was I would go see if Mrs. Borden was there and tell her Mr. Borden was very sick." She says,
"Maggie, I am almost positive I heard her coming in. Won't you go upstairs and see." I said, "I am not going up stairs alone."

Q. Before that time that she said that had you been up stairs?
A. No, sir. I had been up stairs after sheets for Dr. Bowen.
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Mrs. Churchill's trial testimont page 348:

Q.State if you please, anything that was said between Miss Lizzie andand yourself as you reached the screen door?
A.I stepped inside the screen door and she was sitting on the second stair,
at the right of the door. I put my hand on her arm and said "Oh Lizzie."
I then said, "Where is your father?" She said "In the sitting room." And I said, "Where were you when it happened, and, said she, " I went to the barn to get a piece of iron." I said," Where is your mother?" She said, "I don't know, she had got a note to go see someone who was sick, but I don't know but she is killed too, for I thought I heard her come in."

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[Kat]

"Took you a while to catch though, Kat. Do you have a lot of oars in the ocean?"--john

I did catch it but I had already called you on something else and I didn't want to sound like I was dumping on you. But if you are going to post it again, then I would try to respond.

[Kat]

Maybe it could be construed- a la Lyddie- that Abby got back around the time that Andrew did. That Andrew was the one left by Bridget to lock the front door- she herself didn't do it. Bridget also didn't hang around but went back to her windows in the sitting room. I suppose Abby could have "returned" and heard to return by Lizzie while she was upstairs. But Abby didn't have the key to the front door, she she'd still have to be let in (a witness or by Andrew), or she came in the screen door- let in by Andrew? (Lyddie, is that what you propose?)
I'm not sure as it was the bolt on the front door being the only way to keep someone from coming in- wasn't it the spring lock?

[Audrey]

Mon Dieu....

It's like we are watching Freaks and Geeks and the television set isn't even on.

[Kat]

We passed each other posting Audrey.

[Audrey]

I thought I sensed a sister enchantress....

[Allen]

Mon Dieu....

It's like we are watching Freaks and Geeks and the television set isn't even on.

Not quite sure what that means.

[theebmonique]

I believe my sister dearest Audrey means that some posts should not or cannot be taken literally. It seems that in some...what they say is not what they mean. AND...in some...we will NEVER be able to figure out what the hell they are saying anyway, even if we ask.


Tracy...