I was looking thru the archives, and saw an interesting thread that Kat had started a long time ago regarding the letter that Lizzie wrote beginning with "I dreamed of you last night but I dare not put my thoughts to paper...." (or words to that effect) And some people had used this letter to 'prove' that Lizzie was a lesbian. I particularly remember Frank Spiering writing of it, and it sounded like it, the way he wrote of it.
When I was at the FRHS last spring, Michael Martins showed me the letter in its entirety. (It is also in its entirety later on in the archived thread.) The letter - to me - didn't prove she was a lesbian at all.
As the thread eventually progressed, it was shown to be written by Lizzie to a Mrs. Cummings.
Michael told me that Mrs. Cummings was at that time a dressmaker of Lizzie's.
Just thought some of you might be interested in that being brought up again. I didn't catch if the thread revealed who Mrs. Cummings was. It just read like a simple letter of friendship, that's all.
"I Dreamed of You ..."
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augusta
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Susan
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augusta
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Personally, I think Lizzie was probably a lesbian. I've never heard of anything that can prove it. This letter, when I read it at the FRHS, made me a little angry because when I read it in Spiering, it made me think this was a letter from Lizzie to a female lover. I thought that all these years, but when I actually saw the letter it was nothing. She was a nationally known figure at the time. If she dreamed Mrs. Cummings was robbing a bank, she dare not write it on paper. ANYTHING she dreamed (and a lot of dreams make no sense at all) would be subject to scandal. Of course she 'dare not' put it to paper.
Now I am wondering what Spiering said before and after the note to make me think she was homosexual. Could be it was just how I took it. It'll be interesting to see if he slanted the note that way.
It seems to me I read only the first part of the note in another book. And they left out who it was to and the whole rest of it, so you're left with "I dare not put it on paper" (or words to that effect). That was extremely leading and unfair.
Now I am wondering what Spiering said before and after the note to make me think she was homosexual. Could be it was just how I took it. It'll be interesting to see if he slanted the note that way.
It seems to me I read only the first part of the note in another book. And they left out who it was to and the whole rest of it, so you're left with "I dare not put it on paper" (or words to that effect). That was extremely leading and unfair.
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Susan
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Well, it is possible that Lizzie was a lesbian, wasn't there that newspaper story about the husband divorcing the wife because of her involvement with Lizzie? Yes, the letter itself divulges nothing, you can put whatever spin you want to it, which may be what Spiering did. Which really is unfair, you read that stuff enough times by the authors and just take it for granted that its true. Wish that we had more concrete evidence, it would be nice to know that Lizzie had at least one fulfilling relationship in her lifetime. 
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Gary
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william
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Hi Susan,
The following is from Agnes de mille's "Lizzie Borden, A Dance of Death,"
page 84:
"The New England novelist Esther Forbes tells that her father, William Trowbridge Forbes, Judge of the Probate Court in Worcester County, had a curious case at the turn of the century, of a man divorcing his wife on charges of lesbianism. The co-respondent named in the proceeding was Miss Lizbeth A. Borden of Fall River. Judge Forbes dismissed the charges as FRIVOLOUS, but the incident does point up the extreme vulnerability and notoriety in which Lizzie continued to exist."
Over the years there have been several allegations that Lizzie (and Nance) were lesbians. This theory has usually been advanced by individuals who have an agenda they wish to support, or sensation seeking novelists trying to make a dishonest buck.
No proof to back up these charges has ever been furnished by the accusers.
The following is from Agnes de mille's "Lizzie Borden, A Dance of Death,"
page 84:
"The New England novelist Esther Forbes tells that her father, William Trowbridge Forbes, Judge of the Probate Court in Worcester County, had a curious case at the turn of the century, of a man divorcing his wife on charges of lesbianism. The co-respondent named in the proceeding was Miss Lizbeth A. Borden of Fall River. Judge Forbes dismissed the charges as FRIVOLOUS, but the incident does point up the extreme vulnerability and notoriety in which Lizzie continued to exist."
Over the years there have been several allegations that Lizzie (and Nance) were lesbians. This theory has usually been advanced by individuals who have an agenda they wish to support, or sensation seeking novelists trying to make a dishonest buck.
No proof to back up these charges has ever been furnished by the accusers.
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augusta
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Yup, old Spiering trumped up that letter to the dressmaker. This is what he writes of it on pages 278-279 of his paperback book:
He first writes of Mrs. Edith Coolidge Hart, a "long-time resident of Fall River" as saying: "I never heard the words homosexual or lesbian until after my college days. As you know, we kept our thoughts clothed as we did our bodies. A difficult thing to imagine in this era ..." (Spiering's dot, dot, dots.) Then this:
"Thirty-five years devoid of physical affection were taking their toll. There was a part of Lizzie that ached to be warmed and cherished. A part so secret - which yearned for someone like herself whom she could embrace and shower with affection.
"As the days and nights of loneliness crowded in on her there was someone she desired. According to Mrs. Brigham of the Fall River Historical Society, the following letter was written to a young woman:
'My dear Friend
Where are you how are you and what are you doing? I dreamed of you the other night but I do not dare to put my dreams on paper. Have you been away and has your little niece been to visit you? We have been home all summer. I spend much time on the piazza in my steamer chair reading and building castles in the air. I hope you have been away and are well and strong now. Do you expect to do much this fall and are you going to N.Y.? Every time we pass your corner the pony wants to turn down. The weather has been so warm and full of thunderstorms I am quite ready for fall.'
"In an age which prohibited any expression of one's deepest, most passionate feelings, Lizzie's phrase (italics here) I dreamed of you the other night but I do not dare to put my dreams on paper (end italics) was revealing. Despite her tendency to lie, she could be explicit about her sexual longings.
"Discreetly, Lizzie ended the short letter:
'I should be very glad to hear from you.
Sincerely
L. A. Borden
August twenty second
1897'
I don't believe that Mrs. Brigham showed Spiering that letter and just said, "She wrote this to a young woman." I think he purposely left out the fact that it was written to a "Mrs. Cummings" and she was a dressmaker of Lizzie's. Notice how he leads up to the letter and follows it with more juicy tidbits that he dreamed up.
I personally don't care if Lizzie was straight or not. But I think the author here used this letter in a nasty way, an untrue way, to make his book more exciting - and I think it's historically and morally wrong. Until I saw the actual letter at the FRHS last spring, I believed his spin on it.
It's possible it could have been a love letter, but I think it's quite doubtful. Reading the letter acapella, without Spiering's text around it, it just looked like a regular letter.
Thanks for the post, Bill. Interesting that was proclaimed 'frivolous' but it's another myth that continues.
He first writes of Mrs. Edith Coolidge Hart, a "long-time resident of Fall River" as saying: "I never heard the words homosexual or lesbian until after my college days. As you know, we kept our thoughts clothed as we did our bodies. A difficult thing to imagine in this era ..." (Spiering's dot, dot, dots.) Then this:
"Thirty-five years devoid of physical affection were taking their toll. There was a part of Lizzie that ached to be warmed and cherished. A part so secret - which yearned for someone like herself whom she could embrace and shower with affection.
"As the days and nights of loneliness crowded in on her there was someone she desired. According to Mrs. Brigham of the Fall River Historical Society, the following letter was written to a young woman:
'My dear Friend
Where are you how are you and what are you doing? I dreamed of you the other night but I do not dare to put my dreams on paper. Have you been away and has your little niece been to visit you? We have been home all summer. I spend much time on the piazza in my steamer chair reading and building castles in the air. I hope you have been away and are well and strong now. Do you expect to do much this fall and are you going to N.Y.? Every time we pass your corner the pony wants to turn down. The weather has been so warm and full of thunderstorms I am quite ready for fall.'
"In an age which prohibited any expression of one's deepest, most passionate feelings, Lizzie's phrase (italics here) I dreamed of you the other night but I do not dare to put my dreams on paper (end italics) was revealing. Despite her tendency to lie, she could be explicit about her sexual longings.
"Discreetly, Lizzie ended the short letter:
'I should be very glad to hear from you.
Sincerely
L. A. Borden
August twenty second
1897'
I don't believe that Mrs. Brigham showed Spiering that letter and just said, "She wrote this to a young woman." I think he purposely left out the fact that it was written to a "Mrs. Cummings" and she was a dressmaker of Lizzie's. Notice how he leads up to the letter and follows it with more juicy tidbits that he dreamed up.
I personally don't care if Lizzie was straight or not. But I think the author here used this letter in a nasty way, an untrue way, to make his book more exciting - and I think it's historically and morally wrong. Until I saw the actual letter at the FRHS last spring, I believed his spin on it.
It's possible it could have been a love letter, but I think it's quite doubtful. Reading the letter acapella, without Spiering's text around it, it just looked like a regular letter.
Thanks for the post, Bill. Interesting that was proclaimed 'frivolous' but it's another myth that continues.
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Susan
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Thanks for posting that, William! I wonder if there would be any court records of that particular incident still around, if it did indeed happen at all. It would be interesting to find out for sure.
I agree, Augusta, I don't think anyone who works or worked for the FRHS would have been so terse in their description of that letter of Lizzie's when showing it to anyone. It seems that Mrs. Cummings was a friend to Lizzie besides just being her dressmaker due to the more personal nature of the note. That sentence: "Every time we pass your corner the pony wants to turn down." sounds as though Lizzie went to visit Mrs. Cummings often.
I agree, Augusta, I don't think anyone who works or worked for the FRHS would have been so terse in their description of that letter of Lizzie's when showing it to anyone. It seems that Mrs. Cummings was a friend to Lizzie besides just being her dressmaker due to the more personal nature of the note. That sentence: "Every time we pass your corner the pony wants to turn down." sounds as though Lizzie went to visit Mrs. Cummings often.
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Haulover
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augusta:
i don't know what the letter really means. i just stay open. but i do think that people misinterpret words from former times. as a student of civil war history, i've dealt with this type thing.
thanks for typing more of that particular letter. i thought that was the one where she talks about the horse's sense of direction.
there is another one though............the one where she says, something to the effect that she hopes "you weren't troubled by the silly story," etc. that was in response to a printed rumor of a lizzie engagement, was it? don't bother to look up for me, i just ask in case you have it in your head.
there is the noisy bird, the i dreamed of you, and the silly story printed....right?
about lizzie's sexuality: it's only a hunch, but i tend to think that lizzie's intimate involvement with someone is the "missing info." i don't know what they are -- but lizzie's intimacies are secrets -- i don't actually believe she simply did not have them. emma was the one who would know -- no one dragged the truth out of her. and this is only intuitive, for what it's worth -- but i can't help but think that whatever lizzie did that separated her and emma was related to what happened august 4th. i mean behavior on lizzie's part.
i don't know what the letter really means. i just stay open. but i do think that people misinterpret words from former times. as a student of civil war history, i've dealt with this type thing.
thanks for typing more of that particular letter. i thought that was the one where she talks about the horse's sense of direction.
there is another one though............the one where she says, something to the effect that she hopes "you weren't troubled by the silly story," etc. that was in response to a printed rumor of a lizzie engagement, was it? don't bother to look up for me, i just ask in case you have it in your head.
there is the noisy bird, the i dreamed of you, and the silly story printed....right?
about lizzie's sexuality: it's only a hunch, but i tend to think that lizzie's intimate involvement with someone is the "missing info." i don't know what they are -- but lizzie's intimacies are secrets -- i don't actually believe she simply did not have them. emma was the one who would know -- no one dragged the truth out of her. and this is only intuitive, for what it's worth -- but i can't help but think that whatever lizzie did that separated her and emma was related to what happened august 4th. i mean behavior on lizzie's part.
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Kat
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The other letter in Spiering reproduced is from Emma to Mrs. Cummings, 1897.
Spiering introduces Lizzie's letter to Mrs. Cummings as :
"From Lizzie's letter to a female friend..."
Below the letter from Emma it says:
"Emma's letter to dressmaker Cummings."
According to Augusta and her visit to the FRHS, she was shown the envelopes and that is how she first found out the truth- that both letters were to the girl's dressmaker!
Before Augusta found that out, we had been led in a different direction all this time, as she ponted out.
Spiering introduces Lizzie's letter to Mrs. Cummings as :
"From Lizzie's letter to a female friend..."
Below the letter from Emma it says:
"Emma's letter to dressmaker Cummings."
According to Augusta and her visit to the FRHS, she was shown the envelopes and that is how she first found out the truth- that both letters were to the girl's dressmaker!
Before Augusta found that out, we had been led in a different direction all this time, as she ponted out.
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augusta
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Haulover - Yes, there is the letter dated December 18?? from Lizzie, to Mrs. Cummings also. It was published in the newspaper that Lizzie was engaged, and for some reason she felt badly and felt the need to apologize to Mrs. Cummings. I am gonna look this up here - I'm curious myself now!
This comes from page 267 in the paperback of Spiering:
"IS LIZZIE BORDEN TO MARRY?
Fall River, Mass., Dec. 10 - Friends of Lizzie Andrew Borden, who was once accused of the murder of her father and stepmother and whose trial was one of the most famous the country has known, are congratulating her upon the approach of her marriage. The husband-to-be is one Mr. Gardner, a school teacher of the village of Swansea, which lies a few miles across the bay to the west of the city. He has been a friend of Miss Borden since childhood days, which they spent upon adjoining farms. The engagement has been rumored about for weeks, but it lacked confirmation until a few days ago, when it was learned that Miss Borden has given to a wellknown dressmaker an order for a trousseau. Mr. Gardner has had erected in South Somerset a fine new house. It is said that the wedding will probably take place about Christmas."
Spiering goes on to say the story had been "fabricated". "Two days later she wrote to Mrs. Cummings."
"It was from Mrs. Cummings, whose shop on Elm Street stood beside Andrew Borden's Union Savings Bank, that Lizzie supposedly had ordered her wedding gown."
Now here is Lizzie's letter:
"My dear Friend
I am more sorry than I can tell you that you have had any trouble over the false and silly story that has been about the last week or so. How or when it started I have not the least idea. But never for a moment did I think you or your girls started it. Of course I am feeling very badly about it but I must just bear as I have in the past. I do hope you will not be annoyed again. Take care of yourself, so you can get well.
Yours sincerely
L.A. Borden
Dec. 12, 1896"
Doesn't sound amorous to me. Does anyone know more about Mrs. Cummings? Her first name? Where she lived? She was married, or widowed, we know that. And had girls.
Yes, there's the noisy bird note. I love that one. I always wonder when I see that if the neighbor did as she asked.
What I found interesting in that note was she makes reference to her being a nervous person. Who'd have thought it?
Susan, I think someone should check out the court records to see if that "frivolous" lawsuit William mentioned from DeMille's book existed. Maybe if one of us simply wrote a letter to the courthouse involved, it may lead to something. There must be something on paper about it filed somewhere.
This comes from page 267 in the paperback of Spiering:
"IS LIZZIE BORDEN TO MARRY?
Fall River, Mass., Dec. 10 - Friends of Lizzie Andrew Borden, who was once accused of the murder of her father and stepmother and whose trial was one of the most famous the country has known, are congratulating her upon the approach of her marriage. The husband-to-be is one Mr. Gardner, a school teacher of the village of Swansea, which lies a few miles across the bay to the west of the city. He has been a friend of Miss Borden since childhood days, which they spent upon adjoining farms. The engagement has been rumored about for weeks, but it lacked confirmation until a few days ago, when it was learned that Miss Borden has given to a wellknown dressmaker an order for a trousseau. Mr. Gardner has had erected in South Somerset a fine new house. It is said that the wedding will probably take place about Christmas."
Spiering goes on to say the story had been "fabricated". "Two days later she wrote to Mrs. Cummings."
"It was from Mrs. Cummings, whose shop on Elm Street stood beside Andrew Borden's Union Savings Bank, that Lizzie supposedly had ordered her wedding gown."
Now here is Lizzie's letter:
"My dear Friend
I am more sorry than I can tell you that you have had any trouble over the false and silly story that has been about the last week or so. How or when it started I have not the least idea. But never for a moment did I think you or your girls started it. Of course I am feeling very badly about it but I must just bear as I have in the past. I do hope you will not be annoyed again. Take care of yourself, so you can get well.
Yours sincerely
L.A. Borden
Dec. 12, 1896"
Doesn't sound amorous to me. Does anyone know more about Mrs. Cummings? Her first name? Where she lived? She was married, or widowed, we know that. And had girls.
Yes, there's the noisy bird note. I love that one. I always wonder when I see that if the neighbor did as she asked.
What I found interesting in that note was she makes reference to her being a nervous person. Who'd have thought it?
Susan, I think someone should check out the court records to see if that "frivolous" lawsuit William mentioned from DeMille's book existed. Maybe if one of us simply wrote a letter to the courthouse involved, it may lead to something. There must be something on paper about it filed somewhere.
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lydiapinkham
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Maybe Lizzie is apologizing to Mrs. Cummings for fear she might have nursed suspicions that Lizzie had gone to some fancy Boston dressmaker to order up a gown--leaving her old friend and dressmaker out in the cold. For that matter, any friend might be hurt to read of the engagement by chance in the paper. One tells her friends in person about things like that.
As for the divorce: could the husband have spitefully named the notorious Lizzie Borden as a humiliation tactic against his wife?
(I agree that Lizzie's bedroom door should stay locked!)
--Lyddie
As for the divorce: could the husband have spitefully named the notorious Lizzie Borden as a humiliation tactic against his wife?
(I agree that Lizzie's bedroom door should stay locked!)
--Lyddie
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augusta
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Well, we would see if that was the case (a husband naming Lizzie in the divorce case) if we could get hold of a copy of the papers, if they exist. Maybe the husband believed it, based on his wife's friendship with Lizzie. I tend to think, tho, that it is one of those legends that never took place. If it went so far as to go into court, the husband must have had some evidence - seen them together or something. It's easy to end that tale with "oh, it was thrown out of court..." It's worth following up, in case it was true, tho.
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Susan
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The Worcester County Courthouse has an online search feature, though it costs money for them to do a search to see if a document exists. We don't have the name of the man who was divorcing his wife, only Lizzie's name thrown into the mix. Since it was deemed "frivolous", would the man have to refile his divorce papers with a different reason given for the divorce then, other than Lizzie Borden allegedly having an affair with his wife?
Here is the site:
http://www.mass-doc.com/massachusetts_d ... equest.htm
Here is the site:
http://www.mass-doc.com/massachusetts_d ... equest.htm
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lydiapinkham
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Gary
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Hi
I would be terrified if a client came to me and said he wanted to divorce his wife and name Lizzie Borden as a co-respondent, unless he had very reliable proof. Judges don't take kindly to frivolous filings and if there was little or no basis for the allegations the lawyer could be held in contempt of court and/or sanctioned.
The divorce papers would have to be refiled.
It is worth noting that Lizzie would have an action in libel against the husband. This points to one of the things that has always puzzled me about Lizzie. She could have filed suit a number of times for libel during her life. The tone and texture of the articles in the Fall River Globe would have been one example of her ability to seek damages; and as Lawyers are fond of saying she could have owned that paper.
Of course truth is an absolute defense to libel, but it would be very hard for the paper to show the truth of many of its allegations. The articles printed on the anniversary of the murders were particularly virulent and malicious.
I tend to think Lizzie would have been hesitant to visit a courtroom and relive that atmosphere. If she did not wield the hatchet she may have been protecting someone or protecting herself from having charges pressed against her as being an accessory to murder or aiding and abetting. Double jeopordy would not apply to different charges being brought against her as to the murder of her parents.
Gary
I would be terrified if a client came to me and said he wanted to divorce his wife and name Lizzie Borden as a co-respondent, unless he had very reliable proof. Judges don't take kindly to frivolous filings and if there was little or no basis for the allegations the lawyer could be held in contempt of court and/or sanctioned.
The divorce papers would have to be refiled.
It is worth noting that Lizzie would have an action in libel against the husband. This points to one of the things that has always puzzled me about Lizzie. She could have filed suit a number of times for libel during her life. The tone and texture of the articles in the Fall River Globe would have been one example of her ability to seek damages; and as Lawyers are fond of saying she could have owned that paper.
Of course truth is an absolute defense to libel, but it would be very hard for the paper to show the truth of many of its allegations. The articles printed on the anniversary of the murders were particularly virulent and malicious.
I tend to think Lizzie would have been hesitant to visit a courtroom and relive that atmosphere. If she did not wield the hatchet she may have been protecting someone or protecting herself from having charges pressed against her as being an accessory to murder or aiding and abetting. Double jeopordy would not apply to different charges being brought against her as to the murder of her parents.
Gary
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Susan
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augusta
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Thanks for your words of wisdom, Gary.
This is true, Susan - we don't know the name of the people who were getting divorced! Is there even a date?
The area where Lizzie lived and played is all Bristol County. Is there a source that says the divorce was in Worcester County?
I think Lizzie didn't sue when she could because it was classier to give no response whatsoever to whatever people said or wrote. I liken it to Jackie Kennedy or Princess Diana. Jackie especially was always being quoted as saying about a recent piece on her, "I didn't read it," giving no substance to the writer. Lizzie didn't need the money. And I think her way of avoiding even more publicity was to just keep quiet.
Jennings made reference to doing something with some of his notes or something after the trial. He said that whatever it was he had would look bad for Lizzie should she be tried again. Yeah, Gary - as an accessory probably.
This is true, Susan - we don't know the name of the people who were getting divorced! Is there even a date?
The area where Lizzie lived and played is all Bristol County. Is there a source that says the divorce was in Worcester County?
I think Lizzie didn't sue when she could because it was classier to give no response whatsoever to whatever people said or wrote. I liken it to Jackie Kennedy or Princess Diana. Jackie especially was always being quoted as saying about a recent piece on her, "I didn't read it," giving no substance to the writer. Lizzie didn't need the money. And I think her way of avoiding even more publicity was to just keep quiet.
Jennings made reference to doing something with some of his notes or something after the trial. He said that whatever it was he had would look bad for Lizzie should she be tried again. Yeah, Gary - as an accessory probably.
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lydiapinkham
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Thanks, Gary. I suppose the guy could have approached a lawyer with it and been told to come up with something better. Maybe the lawyer blabbed. I know they're not supposed to, but I've known some loose lipped lawyers in my time.
I agree with you, Sherry. I don't think Lizzie would want the publicity of a libel suit if the complaint di go before a judge.
--Lyddie
I agree with you, Sherry. I don't think Lizzie would want the publicity of a libel suit if the complaint di go before a judge.
--Lyddie
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Kat
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The
Borden Murder
Mystery
In Defence of Lizzie Borden
By
Arthur S. Phillips
1946
..."The mass of documents and other evidence collected by the defence have never been disclosed or discussed, due to the fact that until the recent death of Miss Borden their secrecy was, in the opinion of Mr. Jennings, important to her defence. He considered that reservation of such facts as would meet any new phase of police investigation was necessary, and that during her life it was improper to disclose or to discuss facts which were gathered in her interest, and which might by any possibility be important if crime should be reconsidered by the District Attorney."
--Arthur Phillips was on Lizzie's defense team.
Borden Murder
Mystery
In Defence of Lizzie Borden
By
Arthur S. Phillips
1946
..."The mass of documents and other evidence collected by the defence have never been disclosed or discussed, due to the fact that until the recent death of Miss Borden their secrecy was, in the opinion of Mr. Jennings, important to her defence. He considered that reservation of such facts as would meet any new phase of police investigation was necessary, and that during her life it was improper to disclose or to discuss facts which were gathered in her interest, and which might by any possibility be important if crime should be reconsidered by the District Attorney."
--Arthur Phillips was on Lizzie's defense team.
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Susan
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Just so its down here for us to reread as needed is what William had posted on the divorce and Lizzie story:
The following is from Agnes de mille's "Lizzie Borden, A Dance of Death,"
page 84:
"The New England novelist Esther Forbes tells that her father, William Trowbridge Forbes, Judge of the Probate Court in Worcester County, had a curious case at the turn of the century, of a man divorcing his wife on charges of lesbianism. The co-respondent named in the proceeding was Miss Lizbeth A. Borden of Fall River. Judge Forbes dismissed the charges as FRIVOLOUS, but the incident does point up the extreme vulnerability and notoriety in which Lizzie continued to exist."
I think that Lizzie didn't sue as she didn't want her name splashed all over the papers again. I think it might be that whole thing about the "Breath of Scandal" and not letting it touch her life, unfortunately, it already did with the murders. Lizzie may have decided that that was enough and didn't ever want to see her name mentioned alongside some titillating story.
The following is from Agnes de mille's "Lizzie Borden, A Dance of Death,"
page 84:
"The New England novelist Esther Forbes tells that her father, William Trowbridge Forbes, Judge of the Probate Court in Worcester County, had a curious case at the turn of the century, of a man divorcing his wife on charges of lesbianism. The co-respondent named in the proceeding was Miss Lizbeth A. Borden of Fall River. Judge Forbes dismissed the charges as FRIVOLOUS, but the incident does point up the extreme vulnerability and notoriety in which Lizzie continued to exist."
I think that Lizzie didn't sue as she didn't want her name splashed all over the papers again. I think it might be that whole thing about the "Breath of Scandal" and not letting it touch her life, unfortunately, it already did with the murders. Lizzie may have decided that that was enough and didn't ever want to see her name mentioned alongside some titillating story.
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Kat
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Susan
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Yes, thats too true, Kat! It seems like people had it out for Lizzie ever after the murders. The sort of publicity in the papers that Lizzie got later on wasn't something that she willed to happen. If she had a choice about getting her name in the papers, I don't think she would want anything scandalous printed up about her, true or not, like a libel lawsuit. The fascination with Lizzie went on during her lifetime and on up to today, things are still written about her that are based more on fiction than on fact. I guess time doesn't change everything? 
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Kat
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Gary
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Hi
The strangest thing happened when I tried to turn on the Travel Channel to catch a series of shows including the one Kat mentions that dealt with haunted places. I saw the preview to the first show and left the room for a moment. When I came back The Travel Channel had gone blank. I checked the cable and no other channel was out. I turned to something else and kept switching back to that channel to see if the channel had come back on. It never did and I gave up and went to bed. When I turned the T.V. on this morning the channel was coming in fine.
I imagine it was a coincidence but it struck me as a little odd since this is not the first time this has happened to me.
Gary
The strangest thing happened when I tried to turn on the Travel Channel to catch a series of shows including the one Kat mentions that dealt with haunted places. I saw the preview to the first show and left the room for a moment. When I came back The Travel Channel had gone blank. I checked the cable and no other channel was out. I turned to something else and kept switching back to that channel to see if the channel had come back on. It never did and I gave up and went to bed. When I turned the T.V. on this morning the channel was coming in fine.
I imagine it was a coincidence but it struck me as a little odd since this is not the first time this has happened to me.
Gary