Fall River Excursion, Mid-August 2007

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:52 pm

Abbie's little room.
Because it is stated there is a lounge in there, I wondered if Andrew and Abbie did not always sleep together? When I brought that up, someone said maybe they never slept together! I never thought of that.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:55 pm

Andrew's bedroom. I wanted to get the reflection of the bathroom in the mirror. It used to be the area into the sink room when it was a kitchen of a 2 family home prior to 1872.

I took this series because I liked the light.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:59 pm

In Andrew's closet, on the right, is this trap door- eyeball high.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:03 pm

Here is the trap door open.
Story says Mandal Mark (alias Sharkey Mark) used to be a Bookie and if the cops were coming, he'd drop the betting slips down in here and they'd end up in the fire in the cellar laundry room.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:06 pm

I stuck my camera in there and took a pic.
That mound is like concrete.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:12 pm

Emma's little room
Actually, Lizzie only had the larger room for 2 years, so the smaller room, I feel, is really hers. She went thru puberty, adolescence, young womanhood, and the realization of spinsterhood here. 18 years!

Kashesan · Post by **Kashesan** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:55 am

great shots, Kat! It was such an experience being alone in the house-and my solo excursion to the basement was a little creepy too, I have to say. (did you notice how quick it was?)

k

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:20 pm

Yaa, I did notice that!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:22 pm

Here are Marilou and Doug at the front door of Second Street

Caitlin · Post by **Caitlin** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:42 pm

These pictures are awesome Kat...I told my parents that I wanted to stay in the Borden house over spring break...they weren't too thrilled.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:04 pm

Tina-Kate @ Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:25 am wrote:Yes! We want to hear about Kat's experience!

Susan---I like that: remuddled!

Thanks, Tina-Kate, I can't take the credit for that term, though I do love to use it. It came from Old House Journal magazine, each month they would feature an old house that had been remodeled in the most horrific, insensitive manner. And they called it, remuddling, such a fitting term.

Kat, what a creepy experience!!! Did the knocks sound like a hand knocking on the baseboard or something else striking it? I guess Harry didn't hear it too? Reminds me of the testimony from the Chagnons about the pounding on the wood fence behind the Borden house the night before the murders. Great photos yet again. I would love to see the one with all the chairs in the guest room in their proper places.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:18 pm

Oh I didn't think of that- the Chagnon fence!

This was a knock, space, knock, space, etc. There was a small pause between each.

I didn't ask about the creaking.
The creaking was every night. I thought maybe Harry's bed was making that noise because mine did creak- and he never heard it. But mine really rather squeaked than creaked. His creaking from the wall in his room was also along the baseboard. He never heard anything. That noise seemed to follow the wall at the floor where we shared the wall. But it was from the far side of his bed to the outer wall. I checked where his bed was one morning, and our bed heads were not sharing the same wall space. It sounded like he was walking along the walll- but his bed was there. That was a bit creepy but I thought it would have a natural explanation. I ignored it.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:22 pm

Green Street, Delano house where Emma stayed before the murders. I Photoshopped it. TM

I'll bet this Halloween it'll be considered the haunted house!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:31 pm

Halloween?

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:39 pm

Oooo- nice effect! I visited the again house today, and it was even more a tangled,overgrown, sad old wreck than when I was there 3 weeks ago. The rest of the homes on the street look so nice and well-maintained, this poor old orphan of neglect looks even sadder for that.

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:27 pm

Shelley,

My office, the Fairhaven Visitors Center, is just a couple of blocks from the Delano house. Next time you're in town, please stop by to say hello. The hours are Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and--yes--Saturday, 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m., although until the end of September I'm out on tours just about all day Thursdays. (The gang just happened to catch me at the right time when they dropped in on the 16th at lunch time.)

By the way, I think Lee Ann should buy 132 Green Street and make it into the Lizzie B&B Annex.

nbcatlover · Post by **nbcatlover** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:14 pm

I'd gotten behind on this topic. Very nice photos of the house and the group for Stefani's lecture.

I do think Abby & Andrew slept together--that's a standard double bed. They didn't have queens and California kings in those days. They also had a shortage of insulation in the walls during winter months which made people long for "body heat".

There's still hope for the Delano house. I've been watching the work going on at the old Frates funeral home in New Bedford. It's looking amazing, and the city had condemned the property and put up danger warnings on the sidewalk because they feared parts would collapse into the street.

Sadly, the overgrowth in my own yard right now is rivaling the Delano house. Give the plants a little rain and they go nuts on ya!

I've been to the Borden house a number of times without getting any weird or ghostly vibes, but all the stories have made me chicken to sleep there. I'd be scared to sleep alone in any of the rooms.

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:44 pm

I was the exact same way, but I decided the only way to get over it (AND nightmares about it) was to do it. The house didn't give me any weird vibes at all.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:07 am

I think that was brave of you Ellen, especially as you felt so strongly about it before. Good for you!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:28 am

Thursday, our last full day, Stef, Harry Richard and I had breakfast at Almacks. It's a real diner! Then we went over to Fairhaven and Green Street. We walked into Christopher's office and there he was! It was so cool! And we met his co-workers- nice people. And saw his daughter's artwork and all the newsletters he produces! Quite a busy publisher! Got a big hug and talked.
We then went to the Library there which was very nice. The archive lady was on lunch break. Then we drove to New Bedford and got lost. Harry and I got lost there in April as well!
We did get into the courtroom! No longer do thy allow cameras. We were security checked like at the airport and Richard kept ringing the alarm. We left our cameras down with the Officer and then ascended to the courtroom! It seemed smaller somehow. But the experience was, as usual, incredible!

We went to dinner at a place recommended called Kozy Korner. 3 of us had fried boneless chicken and I had mashed potatoes and gravy and green beans. Very good. A very clean place- recently rennovated.
Richard booked an extra night at the B&B and there Harry and I were all together Thursday night, with 4 other guests. Very lovely people, 2 mother/daughter teams. One twosome wanted to stay up all night to have an *experience* in the guest room. The mom actually drank coffee all night to stay awake.

Harry retired about 1 am but Richard was telling me his ideas for future Lizzie stories and ended up so involved that he followed me into the bathroom! (The little room that had once been Morse's bedroom).
I had my night things with me and finally asked him if he meant to come into the bathroom as I performed my nighttime abulations!

Turns out he was over-tired and hadn't realized he was pretty much in the bathroom with me. I turned him around and pointed him toward Bridget's room (we were all in the attic) and then he went immediately to bed and conked.

I told him I was going to tell the story about him following me into the bathroom- and so I have!

We had stayed up talking until 2 AM. I got to sleep a bit later in the morning but missed breakfast.
Then we went over to the FRHS and Richard took the tour while Harry and I had archive time. Then we said goodbye to Richard, and resumed our archive time.
We had a choice of 3 places to be that morning- but are So glad we went to the Historical Society.
Will save the other 2 places we could visit for another trip!

Then it was time to leave for the airport.
We had had lovely weather the whole trip.
Got to the airport and parted from Harry.
Went to my gate and after 2 hours found out the plane was going to be 2 hours late. Then we boarded and the plane sat at the gate another hour. Then we taxied out to a runway area and waited another hour!
My flight, due into Orlando at 7:15 pm finnally arrived here at 2 am! Then I forgot where I parked in the long-term lot! There I was wandering around the long-term parking lot from row 16 to 21 at 2 in the morning looking for my car!
Of course I finally found it. And drove home, and had to go to bed without my supper.

We had last eaten about 12 hours before!

The trip was a wonderful experience and was our third one in a year- if we count August 2006 thru August 2007. They just get better and better. I must say our stay at the Lizzie Borden Bed & Breakfast was so comfortable and homey it did contribute greatly to a wonderful trip!

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:55 am

Now that the story is out that I follow women into bathrooms, I can't ever run for Senate. Oh well.

The excursion was so much fun that we should make some sort of concerted effort to arrange, at least once a year, a large gathering of Society folk and their friends and significant others. Maybe once a year rent out the entire B&B (I think it can fit up to 18 people) and show folks around who have never been to FR before. I know something like this would take a lot of coordinating, but it would be a lot less work than organizing a conference, and probably would lead to a lot of bonding and new friendships and deepening existing friendships and possible lead to the discovery of the hatchet hidden inside the wall (!!!)

I'm sure Lee Ann would love us if we say, "We're coming with 10-15 people to stay for two nights!"

I know we'd all be responsible for paying for our own rooms, but once again it would be a lot less work than organizing a conference as Shelley can attest. And we could arrange for special events like guest speakers, even if we conduct business at a local restaurant or in the Sitting Room in lieu of a house tour!

Just a thought. The last two times I was up at the House I lucked into group meetings of Forum folk and it would be nice to keep doing that.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:17 pm

I agree. It really is something special to meet up like that. Maybe Shelley can arrange something like that at the House for next year?

Yea- we don't need a Conference- just a place to gather!

No haunted stuff tho.... pretty please?

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:43 pm

If we can all settle on a date, I would be happy to organize a forum gathering , dinner, and side trips, tour of Oak Grove, evening lectures, etc. I have, uh, done alot of that groundwork already!

To rent the entire house brings the room rates down considerably. I think we could begin by making a list of prefered times. I can check on the dates to make sure the house is available then, and then we can organize room assignments. Sounds like fun. October is a beautiful month to visit. For real quiet -the dead of winter!

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:26 pm

If you guys agree on a date, I'll be there. October would be perfect.
I know it may be a little harder to arrange, but if you can make it a weekend, that'll be even better since some folks have to take days off from work to be there and a weekend would minimize the number of days they have to take off.

In fact, I'll come up in October whether there's an official gathering or not!

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:20 pm

Are we talking about this October or 2008? If you mean this October- I had better get busy! I would imagine a Friday night and a Saturday night could be good. One night is not enough. If we get 12 people, that would come down to 100 dollars per night which includes breakfast. I think trying to cram it all into one day is impossible.

Arrive Friday 4-6 p.m. with private dinner on the balcony of the Abbey Grille
House tour, city walk and social time 8- ?

Saturday breakfast at 8
Depart at 10 for New Bedford and Fairhaven sites, seafood lunch in Fairhaven, antique and bookstore shopping
Return by 3 for Fall River Historical Society tour and gift shop and dinner at Sagres Portuguese restaurant, evening lecture with special guests
midnight seance for those who love that sort of thing, hot cider and cinnamon donuts from Clyde's cider mill and ghost stories
Sunday morning breakfast and early morning tour and stone rubbing of Oak Grove stones, leave for home

How's that?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:51 pm

Thanks Shell! Great suggestions!

October is beautiful in Fall River.
However, I don't intend to be left out- but have already made the trek 3 times in the past year. Since Richard is closer- a drive away, he might prefer to come more often.

I would like to plan for next Spring. Or maybe Christmas time?

We could see what our members can swing?
We should take a poll! That would be helpful.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:54 am

Christmas time is a quiet time in the house to be sure but the problem with that of course is the weather, which is always unpredictable and aor travel into Providence. Many with families are also busy with school activities, shopping and holiday parties and demands. On the plus side of a December gathering is the decoration of the houses and the Historical Society. November may be an option, before Thanksgiving week.

If Spring is the choice, April-early May is not bad, after Easter of course and before all the weddings, graduations and May madness. New England is very pretty in late April with daffs in bloom, and warm temps. I have always been partial to the famous New England foliage in October, which peaks around the middle of the month. Salem and Newport are also in full swing with Haunting Happenings all month. http://www.hauntedhappenings.org/
Yes, a poll is the answer. The house has 8 beds, and 4 cots. I don't think anyone would mind sharing Abby & Andrew or Lizzie & Emma rooms as they are actually separate rooms with a door which may be closed.

Michael · Post by **Michael** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:10 am

Can I get in on a piece of this action? I would love to meet everyone, particularly at the B&B.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:13 am

If we get more people on the list than the B&B can hold, I'm willing to stay at nearby hotels, but I'd still like to hang out with everyone at the house and have breakfast in the morning.

That way people who haven't been there before can enjoy it.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:26 am

First thing is to set a date. I am waiting for LeeAnn or Dee to call me back with open Fri-Sat dates in Oct-Nov for this year. Of course, this need not be a ONE time thing. We can have a Fall AND Spring gathering. One film society I belong to, INSITE (International Network of Somewhere in Time Enthusiasts) meets the last weekend in October every year at the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island. There's no reason we should not have an annual or bi-annual gathering at the house for the Lizzie Forum.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:31 am

I have created a poll "Fall River Gathering Poll" so that we can get some idea of numbers and dates.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:35 am

Thanks, Harry. I was looking last night on the forum to see how to do just that.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:53 am

When planning any gathering, count me in. You don't have to run any dates by me, just let me know when.

But I will fill out Harry's poll.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:21 am

Okay. Here's the latest. The house takes 12-16 people comfortably.
DATES AVAILABLE: October -no availability

Nov. 9 & 10
Nov. 23 & 24 (after Thanksgiving)

Deposit PER PERSON (using 12 people as a basis) (less if more book) TAX INCLUDED 115.19 per person
Balance of 115.19 payable upon checkout.

Harry, can you modify the poll with these 2 dates? Or maybe another poll? I need to act fast to pin this down. In fact, this should have its own thread as many may not see it here.

kfactor · Post by **kfactor** » Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:11 pm

I just read this thread - I would be interested for the weekend of the 23& 24 of November, if I don't have to teach on the 24th (I'll check - I don't think I do).

This is such a great idea!!