Hiding things

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:57 pm

I have often wondered about this...

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:14 pm

I said yes but it would depend greatly on the size of the object. A hatchet or a blood-stained dress - probably not.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:21 pm

i have no idea, but suppose it would depend on what sort of professional is doing the search: a genuine, highly-seasoned professional, a mid-level professional, or a wet-behind-the-ears professional who at this point is just barely used to wearing a suit on duty...much less finding anything.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:26 pm

I think with Hilliard, Fleet and company you could have hid an elephant.

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:35 pm

...in a peanut butter jar, yet.

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:38 pm

I said NO because my home is the size of a
postage stamp. However, Lizzie's home had many
nooks and crannys, hidden spaces, outdoor things
etc like the old well. I remember as kids we looked
for the blank spaces in our big ol houses because
we heard of our ancestors harboring slaves and
underground tunnels. one house in our neighborhood definitely had an underground tunnel. We found many dead spots in our big ol
houses that could have held slaves or whatever, our imaginations were wild. I think Lizzie's house definitly had many places to hide something.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:46 pm

I think women are better at hiding things...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:48 am

I voted yes. However, my plan is to bury it. If experts went all over my property with a metal detector, I'd be caught. But wait! I could bury decoys as soon as I had more time. A spoon here, a fork there. Drive them crazy- so my answer is Yes. (If right outside is still considered "in my home.")

theebmonique · Post by **theebmonique** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:01 am

I voted yes as well. I have a zillion places I could hide things.

Tracy...

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:36 am

I voted No, my apartment is too small, not enough good hiding places to secrete something that professionals wouldn't find. But, on the other hand, I'm great at hiding things from myself, I can never find stuff when I'm looking for it!

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:43 am

I said "NO" because like Nancie my place is the size of a postage stamp, but if we are transporting ourselfs back to 1892 and I had a huge house I would probably say yes, but if we are playing the game in the 21st century and I had a big place I would still answer No as Big brother seems to find everything these days (apart from chemicals in certain countries!)

Jimmy S. Windeskog · Post by **Jimmy S. Windeskog** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:08 am

I cant even hide dust in my tiny place.

Could LIzzie have hide or an axe in her house? Its not impossible, but then the question is when did it leave the house then, and by who?

I think the murder wepon left the house the same day, and (after reading miss Russels testemony) dont think that it was any reson to hide any dress.

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 1:39 pm

I voted yes, because I have access to the whole house, so I can go into the attic and drop something like a hatchet down inside a wall, where it wouldn’t be found unless the house was torn down or the walls were all opened up.

(I wonder how much wall opening will happen when the Leary Press building comes down. . .)

However, it would be a different story if I were hiding something that would need to retrieve.

Most folks tend to hide things in the same places, thinking that they’re highly original. Thieves and police officers and other professional searchers, of course, know all of these places and usually find the hidden objects in short order.

In Lizzie’s Fall River, it seems the thieves were probably better at finding hidden things than the police. Police work was not the professional career choice it is today. (Tongue somewhat in cheek, there; I know several neighborhood hooligans who today are law enforcement officers.) Most appointed constables had little formal training and were best at getting drunks to move along.

It must have been frustrating to them, once they had concluded Lizzie was the prime suspect, not to be able to find the hard evidence they needed, but they blew it in the early hours when they were all bumping into each other. It’s just too bad that Harrington didn’t get to see Lizzie’s dress before she changed into her wrapper.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:34 pm

My children are professional Christmas gift finders. Seriously, I think they could teach search classes at Quantico...

I am confident I could hide something from the FBI and retrieve it once they leave...

Bob Gutowski · Post by **Bob Gutowski** » Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:31 pm

An interesting question, but let's bear in mind that these policemen were not experts on much except throwing drunkards and prosties into cells. And the attitudes of the day led them to do things like skirting a pail of bloody rags. Hide something? Hell, Lizzie could've turned the dress inside out and worn it as a shawl in those days, or even tucked it under her skirts, saints preserve us, taking it to bed with her.

lydiapinkham · Post by **lydiapinkham** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:16 pm

I said "no," under the assumption that we meant a professional 2004 search. Burial leaves suspicious mounds of earth, and I've seen enough true procedural to know how easily they can find changes in floorboards, etc. One thing that impressed me about the Fall River cops is that they did tear up the chimneys. Their biggest weakness was gallantry over ladies' rights to privacy in their closets and water closets.

--Lyddie

keim · Post by **keim** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:03 pm

(I wonder how much wall opening will happen when the Leary Press building comes down. . .)

I took this photo from the steps that lead from the kitchen, to the Leary Press Building. I was happy to see that they didn't destroy a large portion of the side of the original house. This "Hall" ends just past one of the parlor windows. It was pitch black when I took the photo, so I had to look at the digital preview screen, to see what was there.
It looks like the removal of the Leary building will only effect the front half of the wall.

I voted "no" mainly because I'm basically a paranoid guy!
Since this crime was so unheard of, for the times, and the police were so naive in their "investigations", I could almost believe that clues could still be between the walls, or in the cesspit, or something. Have there ever been any other thorough searches of the house and property, after 1892?

Ray

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:35 pm

Stef has loaned me a picture of this wall for my final installment of my Hatchet article on the Borden house "Frame By Frame." We want to show the cellar window which has been covered up all this time.
For a dark pic with no light this is good.
That's actually a framed picture hanging there on the outside!
BTW: This is the south (Kelly) side, which makes that the kitchen and sitting room area.

keim · Post by **keim** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:21 pm

Oops! Yes, it's the sitting room windows. For me, sitting room and parlor are the same thing. I forget that the parlor is in the front of the B&B, and the sitting room is where Andrew sat...and stayed sitting (or laying)!

In Photoshop, I was able to boost the brightness and contrast of the photo, to bring out details which were not apparent in the original photo.

Kat, what is the framed picture hanging on the wall in this photo? I didn't see it when I took the picture, but noticed it after I enhanced it.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 3:02 am

Yes a parlor and sitting room can be confused, depending upon where one is from!

Um, it looks like a saint's picture, or a Bishop or something. Maybe just a sitting photographic portrait?
I didn't step out there between the walls either time I looked at this view.

Please click on Stef's pic if one needs to make it bigger:

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:15 pm

Now that is cool, thanks Kat and Keim! I wonder what the deal is with the framed print hanging outside the house? Protection from thieves?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:38 pm

I'm still thinking I would bury it, whatever it was, on my property- even if it was 2004.
I have embellished my idea though-I just decided that after I buried it (hopefully it's not metal) I would put a pile of dog doo on top!

I don't know about what that picture is or why it hangs there- Our pics also have a mop and bucket stored there.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:42 pm

Here is the door from the kitchen to the Leary Press.
It is not contemporary with the Bordens tho.
This is the door you exit to see down there between the house and the wall of the Press.
The picture is taken from the outside looking up and back into the House.
The door opens out.

Please click on pic

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:17 am

Thanks, Kat, interesting pic. Where would the door be located on this pic of the Borden home, where one of those two windows are just before the grape arbor?

lydiapinkham · Post by **lydiapinkham** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:33 pm

Hey, guys, see the image of the mustachioed man on the fence behind the white tree on the left? Somebody could have made some money in ebay with that chunk of fence. . .

--Lyddie

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:19 pm

I think the door takes the place of the first kitchen window on the south.

Lyddie: I don't see the "man" but now I do see a giant earlobe!

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:30 pm

I don't see the man either, but I see what looks like another man on the right hand side, leaning against the house! (Lyddie can you mark the spot on the photo where you see the man?)

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 7:42 pm

Oh I see them!

Now I'll always see them.

lydiapinkham · Post by **lydiapinkham** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:08 pm

That's it Kat! See it, Jamfaws? Eeeeeewwwww--the earlobe looks eerily (or should that be "earily") like the one in the crime scene photo. The guy against the house looks like one of those wooden silhouettes they sell at roadside stands.

--Lyddie

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:21 pm

The ear looks more like a womans face to me, wearing a white headscarf, with a witchipoo nose, now the photo is driving me crazy cos i can see more people behind the fence to the right of the old guy!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:17 am

Yes this picture is getting scary!

Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Hiding things

Could you hide something in your home well enough to survive a "professional" search?

Hiding things