John List Dies

[Stefani]

March 25, 2008
John E. List, 82, Killer of 5 Family Members, Dies

By DAVID STOUT
John E. List, who escaped his drab existence as a failed New Jersey accountant by killing his family in 1971, disappearing and building a new life far away until a true-crime show on television led to his capture almost 18 years later, died on Friday. He was 82.

Mr. List died at St. Francis Medical Center in Trenton four days after being taken there from the New Jersey State Prison, officials told The Associated Press. The cause was complications of pneumonia.

The larger world had never heard of John Emil List until his neighbors began to wonder why the lights in his family’s house in Westfield, N.J., were going out one by one in the fall of 1971, weeks after anyone had been seen entering or leaving. And the high school drama coach of Mr. List’s daughter had begun to worry about her absence.

When police officers entered the home on Dec. 7, 1971, they heard organ music on an intercom system and found the bodies of Mr. List’s wife, Helen, 46; his daughter, Patricia, 16; his sons John, 15, and Frederick, 13, and his mother, Alma, 85. All had been shot to death.

The police also found a note from Mr. List to his pastor at a Lutheran church where Mr. List sometimes taught Sunday school. Over five pages, Mr. List wrote that he saw too much evil in the world and that he had ended the lives of his wife, mother and children to save their souls.

Mr. List, at 46, had trouble holding a job, was strapped by a mortgage and was apparently taking money from his mother’s account, investigators found.

His car was discovered in a parking lot at Kennedy International Airport not long after the corpses were found, but dozens of F.B.I. agents and investigators from Union County, N.J., found no trace of Mr. List in the United States or overseas.

In 1989, Union County prosecutors asked the producers of the Fox program “America’s Most Wanted” to look at the case. To help, the producers brought in Frank Bender, a forensic sculptor, and Richard Walter, a criminal psychologist.

Studying photographs of Mr. List when he was in his mid-40s, Mr. Bender imagined how he might look in 1989, his face sagging with time. Mr. Walter theorized that Mr. List would still be wearing horn-rimmed glasses, to make him appear successful.

On May 21, 1989, Fox televised the segment and displayed a bust of an older John List. The network estimated that 22 million people saw it. One was a woman in a suburb of Richmond, Va., who thought the bust looked like a neighbor, Robert Clark, a churchgoing accountant who wore horn-rimmed glasses.

Agents went to the home of “Robert Clark,” confronted his stunned wife, whom he had met at a church social, then obtained her help in filling in blanks from the past. They arrested him at his office on June 1. Fingerprints confirmed that he was John List, although he had denied it. As a fugitive, he had lived quietly in Virginia and in the Denver area.

At Mr. List’s trial in 1990, a psychiatrist for the prosecution testified that Mr. List had been suffering only from a “midlife crisis” when he slaughtered his family and that he had enjoyed life in the years afterward.

Mr. List was convicted of murder and sentenced to five life terms in prison. He appealed, unsuccessfully, on grounds that his judgment had been impaired by post-traumatic stress disorder from military service in World War II and Korea and that his letter to the pastor should have been kept confidential.

In a 2002 television interview on ABC with Connie Chung, Mr. List was asked why he did not take his own life if he felt so overwhelmed. Mr. List said that he thought suicide would have barred him from heaven and that he had hoped to be reunited there with his family.

[Harry]

Thanks for the update, Stefani. Haven't heard that name for a while.

This is a case that shows how a murderer can disassociate themselves from their act and lead what looked like a normal life after. The human mind is strange indeed.

[Kat]

Thanks for the info! Wow it shocked me. I didn't know he was still alive. New Jersey, huh?
Yes that's a good point Har- how someone can block things or rationalize their actions for almost 40 years!

[Fargo]

I seen a documentary on the case and his capture a few years back. I was visiting a friend one time and his sister in law was reading a book on the case , it had pictures in it. I was going to ask her if I could borrow it after she had finished reading it, but I never got around to it. I don't remember the name of the book now.

[Kat]

I think I have that book- but never read it! You're not alone. Sometimes a true crime is *better* on TV.

[1bigsteve]

I don't remember this case when it happened but I remember when he was captured.

Stefani, I find it strange that you brought up news of this murder case today of all days because I woke up at 2:30 this morning from a dream I had about another murder case which happened in California in October 1970. Doctor Victor Ohta, his wife, two sons and his assistant were all murdered in their home by hippie John Linley Frazier. In the dream I had entered the house unaware of what had happened and began noticing blood stains in the rooms. No bodies, just blood. I suddenly realized the killer was still in the house and was now stalking me. I tried sneaking through the house trying to find a way out before he caught up with me. I woke up before he found me. For some strange reason I woke up laughing. Strange thing is it was the first time I thought about this case since it happened.

-1bigsteve (o:

[augusta]

I was watching 'America's Most Wanted' when they first ran that show about List and they made that bust of what he probably looked like after all those years. I hadn't heard of the case prior to that. It seemed like they caught him real fast. That bust was eerily like him.

There was a movie on it that starred Robert Blake as List. Melinda Dillon (Ralphie's mother from 'The Christmas Story') played his second wife. In the movie, List put classical or opera music on. I'd think, as the article Stef posted, organ music would have been even more morbid. It was a good movie. I don't know what a person would have to have in them to kill their own children.

[1bigsteve]

I was watching 'America's Most Wanted' when they first ran that show about List and they made that bust of what he probably looked like after all those years. I hadn't heard of the case prior to that. It seemed like they caught him real fast. That bust was eerily like him.

There was a movie on it that starred Robert Blake as List. Melinda Dillon (Ralphie's mother from 'The Christmas Story') played his second wife. In the movie, List put classical or opera music on. I'd think, as the article Stef posted, organ music would have been even more morbid. It was a good movie. I don't know what a person would have to have in them to kill their own children.

I can't imagine how a person could murder his own family, Augusta, and then start a new life as if nothing ever happened. I don't want to try getting into their brains. No telling what I might find. Those kinds of people are just off the scale. It's a good thing for them I'm not a Court judge!

-1bigsteve (o:

[augusta]

That's so true, Big Steve. Sometimes on tv they'll interview a serial killer. They show a Jeffrey Dahmer one every now and then. I did see one or two of his, to see what would cause a person to do what he did. He appeared so normal, it was incredible. (His father was on the mentally ill side. He said he thought about killing people but never did. I don't think that's very normal...)

It's very hard to look those people in the eye. All the lives John Wayne Gacey took - all young boys. I had read a book on him which was horrifying. I couldn't look at him when he'd be on tv. At first I found Ted Bundy morbidly fascinating when he talked to that minister on video, but I had read at least Ann Rule's "The Stranger Beside Me", and to see those photos of all those women he abducted and killed ... They say that at any given time, there are about 150 serial killers walking around.

[1bigsteve]

When I look at a photo of a victim of a killer I can't help but think that that woman was someone's mother, daughter, sister, friend. And then I realize that, except for a stroke of "good luck," that victim could have been my mother, my daughter, my sister, my friend or my neighbor. That is when it really hits home!

Singer Naomi Judd said she was traveling through the Pacific north west many years ago and sleeping on the hood of her car just before a serial killer began roaming that area. She was fortunate!

-1bigsteve (o:

[Angel]

When I was living in Madison, Wisconsin many years ago a serial killer was roaming about and we didn't even know it. His first victim was a young woman who was murdered in the bushes right across the street from the University of Wisconsin where I was working the night shift. Later that day I got a call from the police asking if one of the patients I had on my floor (psychiatry) could have left during the night because he was a possible suspect. Freaked me out. There was no way he could have done it, but it was weird just the same. I used to walk and bike through those streets around the university all the time late at night and I didn't think a thing of it. Over a span of several years the police thought this same killer murdered I think it was up to five girls. You can read about it in the Crime Library online under "Christine Rothschild."

When I had my first apartment in Madison Richard Speck was doing his thing about 80 miles away. Scared the bejezuz out of everyone.

Then I lived in San Francisco and Marin County around the time of the Zodiac killer and the Zebra killers.

When I was married with my first little boy we were living in upstate New York when Son of Sam was stalking about.

They are all over the danged place.

Oh, and how could I forget--recently those two creeps went around DC shooting people at random out of their car and finally got caught in a rest stop about a mile from where my oldest son lives.

Good lord, I keep remembering more and more. Look up Hadden Clark on Crime Library too. He was a real doozy. I actually met him and shook his hand before he got caught when he came to volunteer at a bloodmobile once. I still get the heebiejeebies over that one.

[1bigsteve]

You can never be too careful, Angel, when walking around alone, especially at night. You never know what is crawling around out there. Killers look for an opportunity to grab a woman in a secluded spot.

California has really had a long string of serial killings over the past 40 years or so. The Manson killings would be the most recognized I guess but we have had many others. This world is a creepy place.

-1bigsteve (o:

[augusta]

OMG, Angel. You must have some Guardian Angel watching over you. That's too many "in the vicinities". The one who shook your hand - . There aren't any words for that.

I'll look those up on the Crime Library site. Thanks for providing the names.

Big Steve - CA's had Richard Ramirez. Soooo creepy looking and heinous crimes. And the Black Dahlia, tho that wasn't a serial killer probably. I've read a lot on the Manson murders. I saw a photo of Sharon Tate as she was found (just her face). It was chilling. I never looked at it again.

Now they think there are more bodies buried at that Spahn Ranch 'The Family' stayed at. I wouldn't doubt it.

There was a John Norman Collins attending Eastern Mich. University in the 1960's. He killed like 7 college girls. My sister had a class at night out there, and I remember my father always used to take her and wait for her until she was done. Our family was scared. We couldn't wait for that guy to get caught. I remember when they flew Peter Hurkos (a world reknowned psychic) into Detroit to look at the case. He didn't give the cops any real important information. They did get Collins. It turned out he was in an art class with my sister. She said he always sat in the back of the room and was "real quiet".

About ten years ago, the local tv station did an interview with him. He looked so innocent. Of course he said he was. But I had read up on him, and he did it. There's no way he didn't do it.

[Angel]

OMG, Angel. You must have some Guardian Angel watching over you. That's too many "in the vicinities". The one who shook your hand - . There aren't any words for that.

That WAS so weird. I was the charge nurse for the Red Cross bloodmobile that day. My mom was visitng, so I took her along to work for the day so she could work in the canteen and hand out cookies and juice. Hadden Clark came in as a volunteer and he was so odd looking- very angular and furtive. He would either sit at the table and read a book and occasionally laugh to himself, or he would look around really unfriendly looking. I asked my mother afterwards if he reminded her of Norman Bates in "Psycho" and she agreed.
A few weeks later I was working an evening bloodmobile and Clark showed up again. There was the sweetest Red Cross bloodmobile driver who always looked after us girls. He made sure to walk us to the car parking lot that night because he didn't like the way Clark looked. I'll never forget him for being so kind.
Then some time later Clark was arrested for two murders.

[1bigsteve]

You were very fortunate Angel! It's best to trust our sixth sense about people and situations.

Augusta- I have police photos of Sharon Tate at the crime scene showing her entire body. It is not a pleasant sight! I also have autopsy photos of Sharon and Abigale Folger showing the knife wounds. It was horrible what those people went through, the way they died. I have the hard back copy of Helter Skelter and it is a sick story. One of my friends worked with Tate in a film and she got hot under the collar about Tate's death and the "we must be forgiving" attitude of the public toward murderers. Many of those Hollywood people started packing guns and buying guard dogs at that time. That was a crazy summer in 1969.

Have you ever heard of Ed Kemper? He murdered his grandparents then his mother and her friend in California. Sick, sick and sick!

-1bigsteve (o: