City Hall Photo

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:58 am

Ebay has a photo of the City Hall in FR. The seller states that the flag on it has 38 stars and that the flag had that many stars from 1877 to 1890.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 17004&rd=1

The photographer who took the photo was located at 5 South Main which was also the address of Pierre LeDuc's barber shop.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:37 am

Thanks Har!
Boy the info you come up with- LeDucs indeed!
Probably a studio above the barber shop, if the timing was right?

Wasn't there a *studio* upstairs in the A.J. Borden bldg?
Ooops it was a "Gallery of Art." I guess that is an art gallery?

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:15 am

I thought Gay's studio was in the AJ Borden Building.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:09 pm

Rebello, Lizzie Borden Past & Present, pg. 56:

A.J. Borden Building

"In 1890-1892, several businesses and organizations were the first to occupy the new Andrew J. Borden Building. The first floor occupants at 41 South Main Street were Charles E. Macomber & Company and next door at 37 South Main Street was Knox & Charlton Five and Ten Cent Store, Mr. Seymour H. Knox and Earle P. Charlton, proprietors. The second floor (39 South Main) was occupied by the Fall River Christian Science Institute, Mr. Seabury T. Manley (uncle of Miss Alice M. Russell, friend of Lizzie Borden) and Stephen A. Chase, Gay's Gallery of Art, Mrs. Edwin F. Gay, and Mr. Beno Brodkorb, music dealer and teacher. The next year, the following tenants moved into the building: Mr. Charles C. Cook, Insurance and Real Estate (financial advisor for the Bordens), Mr. Walter M. Barnes, tailor, Harry A. Clark & Sons, tailors, Ellen "Nellie" Butler, a dressmaker, and Liza J. Saunders, dress cutting teacher. The third floor was occupied by the Woman's Christian Temperance Union (Lizzie Borden was a member), Fall River Literary and Commercial College, Joseph D. Thibodeau, Principal."

--I checked Rebello when I changed my post.
I don't know if this is The Gay's. It says Gallery of Art.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:42 pm

Thanks, Harry, neat find! So, thats the clock ol' Bridget heard moments before Miss Lizzie hollored up the stairs to her. Does anyone know how far the City Hall building was from the Borden's house at #92?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:13 am

You know, if Lizzie was in the barn loft for "20 minutes", then Bridget was upstairs in her room for 20 minutes, right? She went up before Lizzie went out.

Yes. Kieran measured.
Trial
Engineer Kieran
89
Q. How far is it from the Borden house to City Hall?
A. About 900 feet.

augusta · Post by **augusta** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:10 am

Good question, Susan - how far was the City Hall from the Bordens' in 1892? Wow - great post in answer, Kat! So that's like less than 1/4 mile. That's pretty close. (It is neat to see photos of the City Hall Bridget heard that morning, Susan. Too bad it isn't there anymore.)

Thanks for the neat post about who all was in the Borden Building, Kat. That Charles Macomber - Lizzie had a friend, Lucy Macomber. Wonder if that was her father.

There's a picture I've seen of the Borden Building in a street scene, and on the side it says "Gays" - I don't remember if it had any other words after it.

Could a 'gallery of art' back then have also meant they did photographs? Lizzie had several done at Gay's, didn't she? It was like the best in FR at the time? Maybe in one of the old directories it would give an address for Gay's. Maybe it was a different building and had "photography" or something like that in its title.

What did they print on the photos they did? Was it "Gay's Studio"? Hmm ...

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:44 am

Here's a trade card from Gays. I don't know the year of the card or whether it was before or after the A. J. Borden block was opened.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:43 pm

Fall River picture of "Gay's?" or "Gray's".

It's listed in the Keeley Library as "Gray's Studio, House of Art."

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:13 pm

Thanks for the info, Kat and Augusta. That bell must have been quite loud as it was so close to the Borden house. Strange that Lizzie never mentioned hearing it, like, "O, I was just coming down the stairs in the barn when the City Hall clock struck 11:00." Or something like that, strikes me as odd.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 11:49 pm

Fall River City Directory 1889-1891.
The first listing is before the A.J. Borden Bldg. was finished.
The second listing is after the building was finished and the address (#39) corresponds with the item in Rebello, page 56. It is listed both places as run by a woman. I searched with the words "Gay" and "Studio" and this photographer came up... So it looks like Gay's was a photographic studio at least.
It was mentioned that Lizzie patronized Gay's photographer- which photo was that?

Name: Mrs. E. F. Gay
Location 1: 52 South Main
Location 2: house 134 same location
Occupation: photographer
Year: 1889
City: Fall River
State: MA
____________

Name: Mrs. E. F. Gay
Location 1: 39 South Main
Location 2: house 134 same location
Occupation: photographer
Year: 1890
City: Fall River
State: MA

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:58 am

Here might be her daughter or sister-in-law-
Same source:

Name: Miss Winona M. Gay
Location 1: 39 S. Main
Location 2: b.* 134 same location
Occupation: china decorator
Year: 1890
City: Fall River
State: MA

*b. ="boards"

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:55 pm

"Gay's Gallery of Art, Mrs. Edwin F. Gay", in the A.J. Borden Building.
I found a portrait of Southard Miller in The Knowlton Papers, page 103 which legend at the bottom says:
Photograph by Mrs. Edwin F. Gay, Fall River, Massachusetts.

Augusta mentioned she thought Lizzie had portraits done by "Gay", but the only one I can think of is the *suspicious* portrait among the group of women. It was at the FRPD site.
Does anyone know of a verified *Gay's Studio" portrait of Lizzie?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:49 am

"Lizzie had several done at Gay's, didn't she? It was like the best in FR at the time? Maybe in one of the old directories it would give an address for Gay's. Maybe it was a different building and had "photography" or something like that in its title.

What did they print on the photos they did? Was it "Gay's Studio"? Hmm ...--Augusta

This is the only "Gay's" Studio portrait of someone who some think is Lizzie that I could find. I don't know of any other photos of Lizzie being from Gay's. This picture itself is questionable also, as being of Lizzie. I think the concensus in the LBQ was this was not Lizzie.
On the photo, at the bottom right corner it is written "Gay's", only, as far as I can tell.

http://www.frpd.org/lizzie/drawing.htm

snokkums · Post by **snokkums** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:04 am

thats a neat find Harry. I do like the pictures of lizzie

Wordweaver · Post by **Wordweaver** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:17 pm

Kat @ Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:49 pm wrote: This picture itself is questionable also, as being of Lizzie. I think the concensus in the LBQ was this was not Lizzie.

One of the trial reporters mentioned that everywhere in FR he saw people who looked like Lizzie. Identifying photographs of her contemporaries must be particularly difficult because of the strong family resemblance among various Borden relatives.

Lynn