Emma's Trip to fairhaven

RonRico · Post by **RonRico** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:18 pm

I just read Frank Speirling's book, "Lizzie" and although I did enjoy it as a work of fiction based on the case (which it was whether he meant it to be or not) it did make me think about Emma's trip. His theory is that Emma crept back into town in a (rented?) buggy and committed the murders with minimum help from Lizzie. I don't see this as realistic as Emma was investigated and her story seemed to check out. Seems hard to believe that no one would have come forward to tell of renting a horse and buggy to her with all the publicity swirling around the area. Or that no one would have seem her entering her own house that day. The Brownell's (the family she was staying with) vouched for her being there the whole time which was about two weeks I think.

Anyway, does anyone know how she traveled to Fairhaven from Fall River? Train?

FairhavenGuy · Post by **FairhavenGuy** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:21 pm

Emma traveled from Fairhaven to Fall River by train. But the train station was in New Bedford, across the river from Fairhaven. Near the house where she was staying (then numbered 19 Green Street) were two livery stables, Bauldry's and Dunham's. Also three short blocks from 19 Green was the Main Street route of the horse car trolley line to New Bedford. Whether she took the horse car, rented a rig or used some other mode of transportation, she had to get from Fairhaven to the train station in New Bedford.

There's been some earlier discussion on whether she traveled alone on the train. It seems she very well might have.

There's also some question as to why she took the train all the way north to Weir Junction in Taunton and then back southward to Fall River.

Some feel it took her a lot longer than it should have to get from Fairhaven to Fall River.

Welcome, by the way!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:42 am

Hello!

We had been talking about how long a horse would take to make the journey and how it would need to be tended in the interim, awhile ago.

A horse might trot about 6 miles an hour, then when it arrived it would need to be stabled. The murders occurred about 90 minutes apart which would probably mean a rubdown and some fodder and water and a rest for the horse. Then the return journey. At the end the horse again would need caring for.

It's hard to imagine the amount of care that would go into the animal, and if rented, this would be ascertained pretty quickly I think, by asking around.

I think if Emma returned it was not by buggy.

RonRico · Post by **RonRico** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:19 am

I mapped it out on MapQuest and by car it was something like 18 minutes so I agree the horse and buggy idea is unlikely. In fact, I think Emma is a most unlikely suspect.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:21 pm

I can picture Emma as a catalyst. I used to think she might be "Dr. Handy's pale-faced man" because he thought there was something so strange about the fellow which he couldn't pin down.
I think she could have been *involved*- but just not by buggy.
I also think that if she came to town by train she did not do it already dressed as a young man. She had to change. Maybe she changed in the barn, leaving the mark in the hay?

Angel · Post by **Angel** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:38 am

From what I read about Emma in her later years, she was so paranoid she had an axe by her bed or something and did other things (I can't remember exactly what) to protect herself. Whether or not she knew something about the crimes I don't think she could have done them herself because she was protecting herself from someone else. She was afraid of someone.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:59 pm

What does Speiring's book say about Emma's later years?
Didn't he visit New Market?
(There's an article about New Market in the current issue of The Hatchet.
Anyway, does he say she was paranoid?

RonRico · Post by **RonRico** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:23 am

What does Speiring's book say about Emma's later years?
Didn't he visit New Market?
(There's an article about New Market in the current issue of The Hatchet.
Anyway, does he say she was paranoid?

Spiering did a fair amount of investigating in Newmarket even gaining entry to Emma's former home. He paints her as reclusive and lonely and, if you can believe third hand testimony fairly paranoid. I don't take everything he says as gospel. As far as the ax is concerned he mentions it but not that she kept it by her bedside as I have heard. It seems that she bought the house with the O'Connor sisters who on their own could never have afforded it. Her name wasn't even on the deed.

A neighbor says that one of the sisters told her Emma put in a lighting panel that would illuminate the entire house with one switch as a precautionary measure saying "One night they will come for me." Of course this is third hand and he doesn't say when this occurred so I take it with a grain of salt. Spiering does slant everything toward the support of his theory that Emma was the actual murderess. He even goes so far as to say that the police never checked out her alibi which I doubt. I know I read somewhere that they were satisfied with her story. Maybe someone here can shed light on this. He also says that she was never photographed but I'm sure I have seen a picture as an adult and certainly one a baby.

There's a lot of misinformation about this case isn't there?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:36 pm

Emma

From:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... tersP3.htm

From:
http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... acters.htm

RonRico · Post by **RonRico** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:43 am

Thanks, Kat. So you see what I mean. The author states with certainty that there are absolutely no pics of Emma and now we know this isn't true. If he's wrong (or misleading) on that how much of what he says can you trust?

BTW, thats a spooky shot of her and one I've never seen before.

RonRico · Post by **RonRico** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:48 am

As you probably know I am a BIG fan of these message boards already but the best feature of all is the ability to edit your message after its been posted. I post on the AOL travel message boards and you can't do that there.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:35 pm

Which picture is spooky?

Seriously, tho, that little girl picture was taken from the TV by a member- she did a good job!
And that is our little Civil War Emma, right?

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:21 am

I like young Emma......

An Enchantress!

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:48 am

There are 2 more!

Pleaseclickonpic

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 2:05 am

her eyes are rather sad.... Pensive Emma.

The second closeup of her face really gives me a new impression of her.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 4:52 am

I think she looks more 3-D with her head turned this way.
The TV did that- the photo itself doesn't have this *depth*- I know what you mean, tho...She looks *real.*

Nancie · Post by **Nancie** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:27 pm

the second one chillingly looks like Aileen Wournos, same eyes! gave me goose bumps

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:12 pm

Nancie... Now that you mention it... You are RIGHT!

She was spooky...

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:54 am

It's probably war time, and there might be a screaming baby Lizzie at home.

But I see what you mean- I often notice when the white under the iris shows like the lower lid doesn't quite cover the color part of the eye. I think it's a sign sometimes of a medical disorder? Thyroid? Do you know?

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:26 am

This is kind of what I am refering to:
See the white under OJ's eyes? Like the lower lid sags?
I've seen that in criminals and I thought there was indication of a medical condition? Does anyone know?

pleaseclickonpic

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:27 am

I did a search and heres what I could find on too much eye white or sclera:

The eyes — specifically, the whites of the eyes — were indeed the key.

For example, a pair of fearful or surprised eyes has larger whites than eyes from other expressions. Happy expressions tend to have eyes showing the smallest amount of white, according to Whalen.

From this site: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6719954/

Inflammation of the whites of the eye (conjunctivitis) and the iris of the eye (iritis) is frequently seen early in reactive arthritis and may be intermittent. When the whites of the eye are inflamed causing conjunctivitis, there may be no pain. When the colored part of the eye (iris) is inflamed, causing iritis, it can be very painful and especially worse when looking into bright lights.

From this site: http://www.medicinenet.com/reactive_art ... rticle.htm

People in this second stage often have a substantial amount of the white sclera of one
eyeball showing under the iris, due to one eyeball having rotated up from lack of right-left brain
integration brought on by the stress–this condition leads to poor depth perception and is a
common cause of accidents. If you do not learn stress reduction, you are likely to go into the
third stage, "adrenal exhaustion."

From this site: http://askwaltstollmd.com/archives/cliffs/34028.html

Hope that helps.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:47 am

Hmmm.
Thanks Susan- you are really good at that!

No thyroid, no diabetes?

Maybe I am alone in seeing that in Emma's eyes.
Otherwise, any pics of Lee Wournos to compare, you guys?

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:12 am

You're welcome, Kat, it was a laaaaate night search, couldn't go further at the time. Heres more:

Thyroid eye disease can affect many different parts of the eye and surrounding tissues. The muscles in the eyelids tighten and pull the upper lid up and the lower lid down. This creates a startled look with too much of the whites of the eyes showing.

From this site: http://www.clevelandclinic.org/eye/pati ... hyroid.asp

From what I've read on diabetes, it can cause yellowing of the whites of the eyes; jaundice. Couldn't find anything about it affecting how much white of the eye was showing.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:24 am

This is a picture of Aileen Wuornos.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:22 am

Thanks Susan! You found the thyroid. I wasn't sure about that. Appreciate it.
Here is a comparison between Lee, Emma, and OJ.
Sorry- I just don't see a similarity between Lee and Emma at approx. 10 years of age.

y'all will have to click on pic.

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:50 pm

Hmmm, the whole thyroid thing made me wonder, was it possibly because iodized salt wasn't available in the 1800s? It became available in like 1924 or 1925. But, I think the iodine was just to prevent goiters or did it affect other thyroid related conditions?

Lizzie Borden Society Forum

Emma's Trip to fairhaven

Emma's Trip to fairhaven

Emma as a suspect

Thanks, Kat.