As Close As We'll Ever Get

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:49 pm

Some may find cemetery outings to find gravestones a morbid pass- time but I find it is a way to connect with history. I got started gravefinding while tracking down people who were on the Titanic and I enjoy finding the home where they once lived and if it still exists, and finding their grave marker. I am not ashamed to admit I sit awhile and talk to the person below the ground. Finding Borden case graves has been a happy project for me for some years. Some graves I have found, some have been shown me and once in a great while, I stumble across one when I'm not even looking. I have a page of Borden-related stones on http://friendsofoakgrovecemetery.org/so ... onalities/
the Friends of Oak Grove site, and recently when forum member "Joe" was out for a visit for the 4th, we visited Oak Grove, the Hebrew cemetery and the Old North. Joe had spent a day non-stop in the cemeteries and showed me Augustus Buck. That stone is in bad shape, covered with moss and lichen and needs cleaning.

Marshall Fleet is buried in the plot with the Fleet marker, however his name is not on it. My accidental find was Abraham Gifford Hart, the banker who saw Andrew the morning of the murders and remarked later that he had looked "feeble".

Joe had a good snoop around the Old North, on North Main and found Hannah Reagan, Charles Trafton, Mrs. Burt, Michael Mullaly, and we made a mistake on Charles Allen- the wrong Allen as it turned out! It was hot work but fun. Slides of these graves are at the link below. It's always more fun to take a like-minded friend along -and plenty of drinks and snacks!

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:44 pm

thanks for posting the pictures of the stones. I also like to see not just the stones but the houses or streets where these people lived. I totally agree it's connecting with history, and making that history more real by seeing the actual locations.

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:23 am

And I thought that I was the only person who liked graveyards, and talking to the departed ! It's a complicated subject. However, I find myself looking at a headstone, and saying "I wonder how you died." I like to think that the departed souls see Shelly/and friends coming, and they say "Here she comes again !" Yes. Always take a snack. Wouldn't it make a great book ? A "Coffin table" edition : "People Who Like To Hang Out In Cemeteries." Heavily illustrated, of course. I have a thing for pretty crypts.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:35 am

I go crazy for Gothic style or any mid-late Victorian cemetery because the symbolism is fantastic in the monument carving. The Mutton Eaters have been mapping ALL Borden-related graves in FR cemeteries with the view to publishing a guide to be sold at small cost at the B&B for visitors who love to "meet" those who were there in 1892. The project is almost complete.

xyjw · Post by **xyjw** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:52 pm

I have read that Victorians often visited cemetaries and brought a picnic lunch along. It was not considered unusual in any way because people lost young family members more often than we do today and it was a way of visiting. I will see if I can find my source for that information. The book that the Mutton Eaters are putting together sounds terrific, especially for tourists. It would be fun to go to the gravesites as well as museums and other tourist stops. I really enjoy any type of outdoor historical pastime. It would also be a a possible idea for the Mutton Eaters to maybe do a volume 2 with some of the symbolism on the graves and some pictures. I will definately pick up a copy of the first one!

stargazer · Post by **stargazer** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:26 pm

Gypsies, and Mexicans go to the graveyards regularly. They take cakes, and candles. They feel connected. That's a good thing.

Tina-Kate · Post by **Tina-Kate** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:36 am

Thanks for posting that, Shelley.

Rev Buck's stone is lovely!

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:26 am

I love walking through cemeteries and stumbling upon noteworthy people.
It mixes well with my love of US history. I am going to attempt to find
Buck, Hyman and Mullaly saturday. I have the day off so I will try my best to find them.

My next conquest is Mary Surratt in 2 weeks. " Cemetery " Jeff rides
again LOL

joe1956 · Post by **joe1956** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:01 am

Hi Jeff. You, Shelley, and I must get together next year around August 4th for a day of cemetery hunting. I will be in Fall River from July 31 to at least the 8th or 9th of August. We three could have a fun day! Do you need info on the stones you listed?

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:14 am

How I wish I could be there with you guys to go cemetary hunting. When I did live back in Fall River I didn't know anyone else that shared this interest with me so I used to do it alone. I had partly searched St. Patricks, Oak Grove, North Burial Grounds, and Notre Dame. Oh how I would love to spend weekends with jeff and Shelley doing this. Would just be nice to have someone "living" to share it with.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:17 am

Hi Joe, That sounds like a lot of fun! We shall do that. I just would like to know the name of the cemeteries and addresses. I think Shelley mentioned
one of them is on Mariano Bishop Blvd in fall River for Lybinski and not sure on Buck and Mullaly

Thanks Joe

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:27 am

Jeff, There are two Mullalys in Old North- John and Michael, of course we want Michael. I am in town Friday and Saturday for Lizzie Borden Live with the Mutton Eaters if you can met up, let me know and we can zoom out to the cemeteries, Buck is easy to find. I am hoping you will help me finish up the map for Lizzie-related people as we have a plan for a special tour in October. Yes, Steve, we could sure have big fun if you moved a little closer!

mbhenty · Post by **mbhenty** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:14 am

Yes SteveS

I know you were from the South End. Not sure how long you have been away, but...........

If it has been some time since you visited Notre Dame on Stafford Road you would be shocked taking a ride through it.

It now has two huge mausoleums and the cemetery extends way back towards the So. Watuppa . There is no end. Tons and tons of new headstones. It is by far the most active cemetery in the city.

If you google map it you will see the two mausoleums, one behind the other.

It is interesting when you first drive into the cemetery. At it's entrance you find all french surnames. As you get further back, towards the newer section, you see more and more Portuguese---until most of the graves become mostly Portuguese surnames.

The old French must be rolling over in their graves. First they take over the Flint, now Notre Dame Cemetery.

I have not been down that way in many years and was quite surprise as I traveled down Spencer Street and saw the expansion of the cemetery.

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:38 pm

I remember one mausoleum at Notre Dame and it was very new at the time. I always heard that they owned all the land as far as S. Wattuppa but I never dreamed I'd live to see the cemetary expand that far back. I had friends from Spencer St. and after you drove maybe 1/2 way down Spencer to the east it became almost like driving in the woods of Westport or Dartmouth. Is that all built up now too? You are right though about Notre Dame and all the French in the front. My own family included with a HUGE plot and grave marker "Archambault-Martineau". I never made the comparison to the Flint though like you did but you are so right. Went from being French to almost entirely Portuguese with some Cambodians thrown in for good measure. It's funny how teenagers like to hang in cemetaries. Ours growing up was Notre Dame.

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:42 pm

Shelley, is there an online list of all who are buried in Oak Grove? Or is there a way to contact the cemetary office for that kind of information? I have a name I am curious about but would have no idea of the date of death.

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:45 pm

Sadly no. You can call Tammy in the front office who is really nice and very patient and she will help you over the phone. 1-508 -324-2750.
In spare time I do work for find a grave web site finding stones and taking photos of them for relatives faraway. I will be in town Thurs-Sat and will be glad to find your requested stone. I find I spend more time with the dead lately than the living- not a bad thing actually. Most of the mean old buggers are walking the streets!

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:48 pm

Also. Where are you guys getting the Fall River census and Directory information from? Is this info available online somewhere?

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:51 pm

Ancestry.com I find the annual fee is the best deal but for 19 bucks a month for ONE month you can do all of your work at once if you have time. They take Paypal too. And you can cancel anytime.

SteveS. · Post by **SteveS.** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:12 pm

Thank you for that info Shelley. As soon as I can save up enough I will join ancestry.com so I can have access to those census and I will try and give Tammy at Oak Grove a call and see if I can discover if the person I am interested in is buried there. I found this info on line and figured you might find it handy or at least interesting.

Ever wonder what headstones mean?
Anchor - Steadfast hope
Arch - Rejoined with partner in Heaven
Birds - The soul
Cherub - Divine wisdom or justice
Column - Noble life
Broken column - Early death
Conch shell - Wisdom
Cross, anchor and Bible - Trials, victory and reward
Crown - Reward and glory
Dolphin - Salvation, bearer of souls to Heaven
Dove - Purity, love and Holy Spirit
Evergreen - Eternal life
Garland - Victory over death
Gourds - Deliverance from grief
Hands - A relation or partnership
Heart - Devotion
Horseshoe - Protection against evil
Hourglass - Time and its swift flight
Ivy - Faithfulness, memory, and undying friendship
Lamb - Innocence
Laurel - Victory
Lily - Purity and resurrection
Mermaid - Dualism of Christ - fully God, fully man
Oak - Strength
Olive branch - Forgiveness, and peace
Palms - Martyrdom, or victory over death
Peacock - Eternal life
Poppy - Eternal sleep
Rooster - Awakening, courage and vigilance
Shell - Birth and resurrection
Star of David - The God
Skeleton - Life's brevity
Snake in a circle - Everlasting life in Heaven
Swallow - Motherhood
Broken sword - Life cut short
Crossed swords - Life lost in battle
Torch - Eternal life if upturned, death if extinguished
Tree trunk - The beauty of life
Triangle - Truth, equality and the trinity
Shattered urn - Old age, mourning if draped
Weeping willow - Mourning, grief

Shelley · Post by **Shelley** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:18 pm

Oh yes- I LOVE the symbolism and have a lot of old books on the subject and some of that posted on the Oak Grove site- which has a new address by the way.
http://friendsofoakgrovecemetery.org/
I first got interested in Victorian Funeral Statuary and its symbolism on a visit to London's Highgate Cemetery in 1994- a graveyard lover's dream.

I can help you look up things if you send me your request, Steve. You can send me a PM or an email revdma@aol.com

Nadzieja · Post by **Nadzieja** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:45 am

Steve, thank you so much for that listing. I always wondered what they meant. Ted & I also love to walk around the cemeteries and see the stones. Actually we both find it very peaceful.
Shelley--the one website I haven't been to in awhile is the Friends of Oak Grove. All I can say is Wow, it sure has come along way and is extremely interesting. I'll be spending alot of time here reading the different topics. I've heard of some of the superstitions from my mom many years ago and haven't thought of them until I read them again on this site. Thank you for posting the link, it's now on my favorites.

patsy · Post by **patsy** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:04 am

Thank you for the pictures, Shelley. For those of us who may never visit there it is like a gift. Interesting, Steve, the list showing the meaning of the symbols. I always wondered what some of them might mean.

Some of the old cemeteries have such beautiful stones, and it seems a shame that for the most part we can't have them today in many cemeteries. There is a beautiful cemetery in Chicago, IL called Graceland. I spend a few hours there and it seemed like another world.

The link in your post, Shelley, also had a section on mourning fashions which was fascinating to me.