Black Dahlia TV Alert!

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:53 am

Saturday, 10/9c

48 hours.

CBS

The teaser promises "new clues"

lydiapinkham · Post by **lydiapinkham** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:27 pm

OOOOOOOOOO! Thanks for the alert, Audrey. I love that case!

--Lyddie

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:01 am

Ahhhhhh-I missed it. Can anyone who saw it provide a recap?

Gary

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:14 am

What a scatterbrain, today is Saturday morning not Sunday. This is not the first time I have mixed up my days when I have had a lot on mind.

I will be sure to catch it tonight.

Gary

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 7:46 pm

I am interested but torn. I want to watch Notre Dame at 8 but I also would like to see The Black Dahlia at 10. I probably will switch back and forth during that hour.
Thanks for the tip, Audrey!
I thought today was Friday!

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:38 pm

We all mix up days when a Holiday occurs!

Thayne closes his office from Wednesday at noon until Monday and the kids have been home that long as well. I think every day should be MONDAY!

Doug · Post by **Doug** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:17 pm

I'll have to catch the Black Dahlia when it is rerun. Tonight we're watching "Daniel O'Donnell Live From Branson" on PBS and I'm not able to record the other program. The PBS program is like the musical variety shows (except for the pledge breaks) that used to be on network TV in another life. The song "Rosa Rio" was performed earlier; I had not heard it since I was a kid, and a young one at that!

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:52 pm

well....

What was shared on the show closely matches what Sylvia Brown shared in her book

Visits from the Afterlife: The Truth About Hauntings, Spirits, and Reunions With Lost Loved Ones

It was interesting to watch.......

doug65oh · Post by **doug65oh** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:39 pm

It was indeed...very interesting.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 2:53 am

Notre Dame pooped out so I watched the Black Dahlia show.
It was intersting enough but was disappointing in that no one backed up the suspect's son's claims.
He was a new suspect for me- but there was no resolution.

lydiapinkham · Post by **lydiapinkham** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:15 pm

The rest of Hodel's evidence is in his book, Black Dahlia Avenger. I found it interesting that there was nothing but heresay evidence for the police interviews (recordings now missing. . . ). Also that the graphologist and facial features analyst gave it a thumbs down. I think Steve Hodel's dad was a creep, but Hodel wants him to be the Avenger, as well--maybe as justification for hating him so much. I notice that his sister, Tamar, said nothing about having knowledge of the Dahlia killing, but in the book Hodel claims she does. It just doesn't add up for me. The photos don't look like Short, and the Man Ray photo-posed body theory is downright wiggy.

--Lyddie

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:36 pm

I saw parts of the show and remembered the son in another documentary on the murder.

There was certainly not enough evidence to convict him in a court of law. It was interesting though that the police at one time had him as their prime suspect.

There is a lengthy write-up on the show at:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/ ... 7318.shtml

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:20 pm

Hey, this is another of my favorite cases, and I'm glad to see that you all are interested in it also. YAY lol...

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:25 pm

Isn' there a new film coming out soon about the case? I think Mark Wahlberg

is in it, mind you in the UK we are about 10 years behind the US in premiers

so you've all probably seen it!

I read a book a few years back, I think the geezer who wrote it claimed his dad did it, i'll have to dig it out when I move and read up on it again. all I remeber is the bit about the body being thrown into a swimming pool (or am I mistaken?) anyone here interested in the Sweeney Todd legend, Sawney Bean and Fanny Adams murder case? i'm semi interested in them (as well as Ed Gein-Psycho being my no1 film of all time) but nobody does it for me like Lizzie

though i've got all the old Murder case books and am intrigued by Jack the Ripper case, Titanic and Silent stars like Lon Chaney and the lovely Rudolph Valentino-sounds like a personel ad

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:35 pm

I think a lot of us are interested in unsolved murders. They are now becoming *in vogue* on TV, though we've been doing this for 4 or 5 years. See "Cold Case" on CBS and "Cold Case Files" on A&E.
There is a natural urge towards justice when trying to figure out a murder. Someone silenced a human voice with violence and we need to find a reason and try to create order out of chaos. There's also a punishment issue, but these old cases rarely come to that.

My favorite cold cases are:
Borden case
The Whitechapel murders
Sarah Cornell

and there are cases resolved but still in dispute which interest me:
Smutty Nose murders
Bertha Manchester
The Lindbergh kidnapping

The Black Dahlia is a fascinating cold case...That swimming pool book was by the daughter of a suspect- she thinks her father was the killer. (I just went looking for it but didn't find it- tripped on the rocker rung- ouch!)
Sorry can't find the title.

"Solved cases" that interest me are Constance Kent, Florence Bravo, Mrs. Florence Maybrick- all British crimes you notice!
American crimes: HHHolmes, Ted Bundy, Green River Killer, Jeffery Dahmer (who went to the same high school as my cousins- tho different years).

The most books on any one subject I have are:
Jack The Ripper- maybe 20
Lizzie Borden- we have over 144 items in our collection
Ted Bundy- probably 12 to 14 books.

So I guess these are my expertise subjects.

I heard an FBI profiler make the comment on TV one time that it seemed that of serial killers, there was an unusually high percentage of the middle name "Lee!"
It wasn't official, just an observation.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:03 am

Well I know what book you are talking about I have it myself, it was pretty far fetched scenario I thought, it's called "Daddy was the Black Dahlia Killer" by Janice Knowlton. The other book was "Black Dahlia Avenger" by Steven Hodel which I also have. I dont lend any weight to either one of them.Steven Hodel keeps promising he will give conclusive evidence his father did it. Other than a handwritting expert who claims his handwriting matched that of the Dahlia killer, I didnt find any other evidence offered up. And pictures he found that belonged to his father that he claimed where of the Dahlia, I saw no likeness. I thought it was a bunch of hogwash.

Some other subjects that are in my area of interest:
The Lindberg kidnapping,
Jack the Ripper
Titanic and the Lusitania
the death of film actress Thelma Todd
William Desmond Taylor murder
Ted Bundy
Disappearance of flight 19 in 1945
the Cleveland Torso Killer
Amelia Earhart
H.H. Holmes
hauntings and haunted houses

actors and actresses of the 30' and 40's.
Charles Manson, who I actually corresponded by mail with for a time,
I was doing a paper on him for psychology and I thought,how better to get an idea of the man himself than to actually relate with him? And what I can relate is, he's crazy!!

But like you all said, my greatest fascination is with Lizzie. It is like no other case in history. It holds your fascination because no matter how many times you read over trial transcript and such, you feel as if you find something new everytime. And just the mystery of it all, I dont believe I'll ever tire of it.

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:18 pm

Melissa, what actors and actress from 30's and 40's are you most interested in? or is it just any from those decades?

Kat, i'd never heard of the "Smutty Nose murders" when I get time i'll try and read up on it!

To my shame i've never done the Ripper tour, and have lived in London all my life

I recently saw the Johnny Depp film "From Hell" and really enjoyed it, but I am only semi-interested in the case, I did (many years ago) appear in the stage musical (Amerture production) "Jack the Ripper" it had some really good songs in it, but I don't think the show was ever recorded by anyone, if someone knows differant let me know

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:27 pm

Doesn't Bridgett call Abby a "Smutty nose cow" in the TV movie, or is it "Snotty"? haven't got the movie here to check so could be completely out about this

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:41 pm

Allen @ Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:03 am wrote:It is like no other case in history. It holds your fascination because no matter how many times you read over trial transcript and such, you feel as if you find something new everytime. And just the mystery of it all, I dont believe I'll ever tire of it.

I couldn't agree with you more

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:23 pm

Well I am interested in film production during that time as a whole, how the movies were made, the actors that played in them, etc. But my interest has always been mostly the actors and actresses themselves. Some of my favorites are Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Clarke Gable, Jean Harlow, Thelma Todd, Rita Hayworth, Carole Lombard, Jimmy Stewart, and Cary Grant. I love reading about their lives. What life styles they had! And what scandles

When it comes to movies it is hard to choose because there are so many I like, so there is a pretty long list

Some of my favorite movies are "It Happened One Night." , "A Star is Born" (1937 version not the one done in 1954), "The Letter", "My Man Godfrey", "The Thin Man", "Arsenic and Old Lace", "It's A Wonderful Life", "To Be Or Not To Be", "Gilda", and "Casablanca".

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:56 pm

I love "It's a wonderful life" have you seen the colourised version? I also think Bette Davis is great! I love "All about eve" and "Whatever Happened to baby jane" haven't seen much on Joan Crawford, but I recently got a Lon Chaney box set that had the silent film "The Unknown" have you seen it? if not it's a must, Joan is great in it and Chaney is just superb, Tod Browning directed (I love the film Freaks) I just got the dvd of 1931 Dracula, which has the 1931 Spanish version with it as well (which pleased my boyfriend has he is Spanish), I think I prefer Todd Brownings version though

it's such a shame Lon Chaney died when he did, only made 1 talkie in 1930 (remake of "The Unholy three"-it's on my wish list to be put out on dvd) I think he would have been a superd "Talking" actor, as he was a brilliant silent actor (sadly only about 34 of the 159 films he appeard in survive

) I would love to see Joan Crawford in "Straight Jacket" have you? if so what's it like? cheers Aaron

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:07 pm

There is a silent movie actress I enjoy reading about and that is Clara Bow. I think they referred to her as the "It" girl? It's been awhile since I read anything about her I might have it mixed up. I have seen only one of Lon Chaney's movies, but he still think he was a very talented actor. I had a recording that showed film clips of some of his other movie roles.I think it was from a program that was done about silent movie stars. I've definitely seen "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane". I read about the making of that movie in biographies of Joan Crawford and Bette Davis. With the fued between them I wish they could have made a behind the scenes movie as well!That was some garish make-up job they did on Bette for that also. She looked hideous

I did not see the sequel to the movie called "Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte" with Olivia de Havilland, because I am not overly fond of her. Have you seen it? I have seen the colorized version of "It's a Wonderful Life", and I have to say I like the black and white version better. I've seen "All About Eve" one of Bette's best movies ever! I have never gotten to see Joan Crawford in "Straight Jacket." But I would like to see it sometime.

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:01 pm

If you get a chance, see the re-make of "Baby Jane" with the Redgrave sisters, it's not a brilliant film, but it's a blast! I've not seen Olivia De Haviland in much, but she was great in "The Heiress" with one of my favourite actors "Montgomery Clift" (seen all his films) "The Heiress" is a brilliant film and has qualitys of "Lizzie and co" about it, i've also seen "Olivia de Haviland" in a tv movie called "The Screaming Woman" which scared the hell out of me as a child

I saw "Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte" many years ago, I enjoyed it but like "Baby Jane" better! I think some geezer has wrote up on the film and Lizzie connections on this site. I have a great Bette Davis LP where she sings the title track from "Hush Hush"(she also sings "I've written A Letter To Daddy") i've not seen anything with Clara Bow in it, but have seen pics of her and would like to see her act. I had the book "The devine fued" about Bette and Joan, so who would you have play them in a movie? I think Bette would be harder to pay than Joan

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:29 pm

From "Galleries"- LABVM&L
Cover Art
http://lizzieandrewborden.com/Galleries/CoverArt.htm

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:56 pm

I think if I was to pick who to play Joan Crawford I would have to go with
Fay Dunaway. She did such a good job in "Mommy Dearest" that I cant see her in another movie without thinking of Joan.For Bette Davis, I have thought of this before and I think UMA THURMAN. She really reminds me of a younger Bette. And I think she could pull off the voice and the attitude also. I found a site where you can watch film clips from Bette Davis movies while I was looking for some pictures. Hope you enjoy.

http://www.celebsmoking.com/Davis_Bette.htm

jamfaws · Post by **jamfaws** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:54 am

Yes, UMA THURMAN would be a great choice to play Bette Davis, thanks for the link i'll check it out later

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:09 pm

I am unable to a find books about the Dahlia other than those which have
been written in the last 10 years or so. Does anyone know if any books were written prior to this, and if so where I can find them?

Another great site for film clips and such.
http://www.reelclassics.com/Contents/stars.htm

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:09 am

She must be in anthologies, then.
You checked the web-site on the crime, right?
I might have her here as a chapter - I will look around Sunday.

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:33 pm

Yes I've found a lot of information about her on the internet. This was the best link I found. It has the most information about her,and many photos.

http://www.bethshort.com/

But I can't believe that nothing has been written about her prior to the last ten years. There has to be something.Thanks alot Kat. If you find anything I would really appreciate it.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:06 pm

I have looked in 6 of my anthologies and I find blurbs in 3 of them:

The Mammoth Book of Murder, Edited by Richard Glyn Jones, Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc., N.Y., 1989, pg. 456.

The Chronicles of Crime, Martin Fido, Carroll & Graf Pub., N.Y., 1993, pg. 208

The New Murderers' Who's Who, J.H.H. Gaute & Robin Odell, International Polygonics, Ltd., N.Y., 1989, pg. 51.

I will scan them for you- they are very short (pun intended).
I'm suprised there is not a Bibliography at the bethshort web site.

The New Murderers' anthology seems to have further references included. There are 4. I will list those to you as well. They seem obscure.

Harry · Post by **Harry** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:18 pm

Bookfinder.com has quite a few listed including one novel.

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?autho ... t=sr&ac=qr

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:47 pm

If you activate your Private Message feature on the Forum, I can send you these short articles as Jpeg attachments.
You can PM me.

Kat · Post by **Kat** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:29 pm

Hi Melissa!
Very cute photo, thanks!

I wondered if you were satisfied with the books Harry found for you on The Black Dahlia, (it seems extensive!) and if you would still like the few pieces I collected for you from my anthologies?
I have saved them as scans- JPEGS. But I can't send them to you without your contacting me.
If you don't need them now, I will take them off my desktop. It's totally your call- just let me know if you aren't ready for them right now. Thanks!

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:54 pm

Yes I would be interested in them Kat, sorry it took so long for me to reply.Though I am unsure how I activate the pm feature for my profile since I opted not to activate it when I registered. Along this same line, you mentioned under this topic you were interested in the Smuttynose Murders, I have looked it up and have since found myself fascinated with the case.Another case I think is fascinating is the murder of 13 year old Mary Phagan in 1913. The Leo Frank case. I wanted to thank you for sharing your interest in the Smuttynose murders, because now I have another case worth researching

terrie · Post by **terrie** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:35 am

Holy cow, Allen....you actually corresponded with Manson... what did he say? What a psycho (errrrr....him, not you).

Reading over Kat's list, I have to laugh at myself. I am such a devils advocate or rooter for the underdog...I never think ANYONE did it... like Constance Kent... I think she was set up... I don't think Lizzie did it... and was Flossie Maybrick so guilty? I'm probably one of the few who think Klaus von Bulow didn't do it. Maybe I am naive... the only thing I know for sure is that I didn't do it...lol.

Anyone familiar with the Hall-Mills case? That one used to give me nightmares. Or Leopold and Loeb....makes me shudder. Ruth Ellis, Nanny Doss, JTR, Bonnie and Clyde, Bundy, Dahmer, Carla Hulmoka (sp?), Richard Speck, Ramirez, the Hillside Stranglers, the Zodiac, the Black Dahlia... so many fascinating and horrifying cases...

I, too, have had a fascination with "early Hollywood". It began when I was 16 and bought a bio of Joan Crawford to read on vacation in Florida. I became obsessed...lol. There are many Hollywood cases, too --- W.D. Taylor, Roscoe Arbuckle, the mysterious death of Tom Ince, Thelma Todd, Bob Crane (the man on whom I had my first intense crush)...

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:45 pm

terrie · Post by **terrie** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:47 pm

YIKES AUDREY!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......... that is truly frightening.... maybe MJ can play JC next?

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:08 pm

OMG Audrey I had never realized that there was such a resemblance. Thats not only ODD, that's downright scary

. Could he have done that on purpose with all that plastic surgery he had? I mean for God Sake, that mans nose won't even stay attached to his face anymore

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 2:28 pm

I corresponded with Charlie, I have three letters from him,the last one pretty long.I would probably have had more, but here are just some excerpts from the last letter.I use his original spelling, and there is no key for the " & " type sign he used so I just used a + sign."I'm not any one to know about-I'm not in need- Think the worst of the worst + I'm worse than you could think in a 1000 years- I'm the beast. I thought you knew that. Who did you think you were wrighting a nice guy" and then later he said "I git alot of games + I play but I never take it as real There is no need to wright me I'm NO pen pal or friend- This is pure just something to do.I don't want or believe in friends + the things I was taught- I learnt + I know. Try never to find out. Keep your dreamland - Charlie" So I stopped corresponding with him. I also have a Trust Account Withdrawal Order from the prison that he sent me.I had sent him one of my songs I wrote, because I knew he was really into writing music, and had been trying to break into the music business at one time. As a way of relating to him and his interests. The purpose cited on the order is "music lessons- birthday", and it's in the amount of $99.He said I needed to learn to play an instrument.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:46 pm

Melissa...

Are you sure your name is not Beverly Sutphin??

Allen · Post by **Allen** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:00 pm

No...I would be one trying to hunt a "Beverly Sutphin" down.I thought that was a cheesy movie when they made it

My interest in Charlie was purely just trying to figure out how his mind works. Trying to figure out how he thinks, how his views on life are so much different than mine. I'm interested in the criminal mind and what makes it tick.

Audrey · Post by **Audrey** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:18 pm

I thought that movie was funny.... But then I can relate to Bev.... Sitting around the house all day, bored.... Barry Manilow playing...

Of course I can relate to Kathleen Turner on a lot of levels....

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