interesting items in Churchill's testimony

[leitskev]

According to Churchill, Bridget led the way up the stairs in the search for Abby. But it was Churchill, behind her on the stairs, that saw Abby. The reason this is interesting is because there are great debates here about the guest room door being closed early, with some insisting that Lizzie would have seen Abby's body herself earlier if the door was open. However, based on this testimony, Bridget didn't see it when she went up the stairs. Churchill, behind her, was the one to see it.

As always, witness testimony is subject to error, so it's possible Churchill is misremembering.

There's also interesting cross direct on the dress. Churchill claimed the dress Lizzie was wearing was not the one Lizzie ultimately gave the police. If I remember right, this testimony is contradicted by Bridget's testimony that it was the same. Dr. Bowen couldn't remember the dress.

But again, we see the challenge of witness statements. In cross, Churchill was asked what Bridget was wearing. She said "I don't know. A Light calico, I think." So she didn't remember, and then added light calico probably because that's what she guessed the servant would be wearing at that time of year. She doesn't say what color light.

Churchill also had more trouble remembering white Mrs. Bowen was wearing when she came over.

I am not suggesting Churchill was lying about Lizzie's dress. I am saying her testimony could not be relied on at all. Churchill goes out of her way, despite not being asked during the trial, to say that Lizzie at no time shed tears that day. Of course, we know Lizzie did cry on several occasions, but on the whole, she seemed composed. THIS more than anything made the police think she was guilty. They expected her to be collapsing into a Victorian heap. Churchill obviously felt the same way, or at least came to feel that way in the following days or weeks.

Meanwhile, her mind is processing and creating her memories of that day.

Churchill also testified to rubbing Lizzie hands, fanning her face. She would have seen ANY blood on her hands or hair. She didn't. Later, when Lizzie was lying on a couch, Churchill might have seen blood on her shoes. She didn't.

I wonder what Churchill's ultimate theory of what happened was? She must have thought that Lizzie killed Abby, changed clothes, then killed Andrew, and changed again. There would not have been time for Lizzie to put on the still-wet clothing from the Abby killing, so this would leave Lizzie with two dresses she need to hide. Lizzie managed to do all this, apparently, without Bridget noticing any change of clothing at any point

[leitskev]

Bridget's testimony: Mrs. Churchill said she would go upstairs with me. As I went upstairs, I saw the body under the bed. I ran right into the room and stood at the foot of the bed. The door of the room was open. I did not stop or make any examination. Mrs. Churchill did not go in the room. We came right down. Miss Lizzie was in the dining room, lying on the lounge; Miss Russell was there.

So that's a bit different than what Churchill described.

[Inspector]

Speaking of dresses, where would one hide a dress in a locked closet? Would it be the ones up front, middle, or back in the corner?

Seaver testified that he, and Fleet didn’t touch the 2, or 3 heavy silk dresses in the corner. Just looked at them, and left them as they were.

[camgarsky4]

Leitskev -- oh, how I miss our forum debates. Inspector has resurrected you and it appears this was a post to which I chose not to respond. Below are Churchill and Bridget Preliminary Hearing testimony about BOTH seeing Abby's body as they ascended the stairs. The recollections seem to match quite well.

Bridget Preliminary Hearing testimony
Q. What did you do then?
A. We were talking, I said I would like to know where Mrs. Borden was. I said I would go over to Mrs. Whitehead’s. She said she would like us to search for Mrs. Borden, she told us to go and search for her. I said I would go over there, if I knew where the house was. She said she was positive she heard her coming in, and would not we go up stairs and see.
Q. Who said that?
A. Miss Lizzie Borden. I said I would not go upstairs; and Mrs. Churchill said she was willing to go with me; so me and Mrs. Churchill went up the front stairs. There we found Mrs. Borden.
Q. Did you see her before you got in?
A. I saw her as I went in; but I stood at the foot of the bed and looked at her.
Q. Was the door open then into the room?
A. Yes Sir.
Q. Did you disturb or touch the body in any way?
A. No Sir.
Q. Did anybody while you were there?
A. No Sir.
Q. You said you saw her before you went in?
A. Yes Sir, I could see her as I went in. Of course the bed was not a very high bed, I could see her body, her dress; and then I stood at the foot of the bed and looked at her.

Churchill preliminary hearing testimony
Q. I do not care for every little thing that happened. Did anything happen with relation to Mrs. Borden, what part did that begin to take place in? I wish to direct your attention to that point.
A. Soon after Miss Russell came in, I think Miss Lizzie said she wished we would try to find Mrs. Borden, she thought she heard her come in. Bridget did not want to go alone; I went with her halfway up the front stairs. I could see across the floor of the spare bedroom. I saw something at the far side of the bed, the north side, that looked like a prostrate form. I did not go any farther, I turned and went right back again.
Q. Was the bed between you and the prostrate form when you saw it?
A. Yes sir.
Q. Did you see it over the bed or under the bed?
A. Under the bed.

[camgarsky4]

Inspector -- as far as where a dress might have been hidden, you might read Alice Russell's testimonies and statements to police describing when Lizzie changed into the pink wrapper after she sent Alice to go find someone...I think it was the funeral guy Winward. What Alice sees as she reenters Lizzie's room is a good place to imagine what might have happened to the outfit lizzie changed out of.

If Lizzie changed out of the dress for nefarious reasons, it would be odd (to me anyway) that she would then go over and hang the dress anywhere in the dress closet.

[Inspector]

When Lizzie went upstairs, I went upstairs with her-at least, I have always thought so. She had not yet changed her dress. She said, "When it is necessary for an undertaker, I want Winwood." I went downstairs and waited for Dr Bowen. I sent for him, spoke to him, and went up to Lizzie's room again. She was coming out of :Miss Emma's room, tying the ribbons of a wrapper-a pink-and-white striped wrapper. I stayed at the house all that night, having gone home once that day and returned. I did not suggest to :Miss Lizzie that she change her dress; did not hear anyone suggest it. Thursday night, I went down into the cellar with Lizzie; I carried a lamp, she carried a slop pail. Went to the water closet. The clothing taken from the bodies was in the washroom. Miss Lizzie went into the washroom; I did not. She went to the sink there and rinsed out the pail. Then we went upstairs again.

It’s interesting that Lizzie may, or may not have tried to get Miss Russell out of the room, it seems like it may be so to send for Winwood, possibly Lizzie mentioned this earlier as well for the same purpose of having some free time.
Very early saying she would have to go to the cemetery.

I did remember her coming from Emma’s room, and thought it so strange to choose that pink wrapper.
It seemed the pink dress would be more for a celebration, or party type dress with the red ribbon.

I’m curious about officers not examining the 2-3 heavy , silk , dark dresses in the corner only because there could have been something underneath them.
More for concealment , not necessarily worn for the crimes .

I’m not sure what to think about the light morning dress that Lizzie changed out of.
Even if she had worn it during the crime, she must have had a covering, or it’s not the murder dress anyway.

Now, it is bothersome that Bridget can specifically recall the dresses Lizzie wore on Tuesday, and Wednesday the week of the crime.
Alas, she cannot recall the dress Lizzie wore on Thursday.

If Bridget helped Lizzie , it seems likely that she kept quiet about a dress that was worm before anyone arrived on scene.

This would all be connected in some way.
Perhaps Lizzie brought the instrument up with clean clothes from the cellar, and the second cellar visit without Mrs Churchill was when she did some additional cleaning, or hiding.

She stooped down by the sink for about 1 minute.
Unfortunately the officer couldn’t see what she did.

[camgarsky4]

On murder day Lizzie only saw Lizzie briefly as Lizzie came into the kitchen around 8:50. Almost immediately Bridget went out to vomit, so she was likely feeling very nauseous in the brief moments she and Lizzie were together in the kitchen. The next time Bridget saw Lizzie was through the screen door when Lizzie asked if she was going to wash the windows. Next was the brief chat in the dining room when Bridget was busy washing windows and wrapping up to her duties so she could go take a nap. Then of course, it was all bedlam after that.

None of these interactions where ideal to mentally absorb what someone is wearing.

Even if she had something covering most of her dress when, and if, she committed murder, once all the police started showing up, it would make sense that a person would become hypersensitive about anything that might reveal her actions. Maybe she spotted some blood spots on her painted dress and removed/hid it before anyone else might notice. Again she would be hypersensitive and aware....so could have been minor spots that would have required a very focused study.....but to Lizzie they would have screamed "look at me!".

I think Lizzie's solo visit to the cellar is a big 'what the heck' moment for the case.

[Inspector]

That’s a great point that Bridget didn’t have much visual time with Lizzie on Thursday, and if there was any blood on her dress, she would have been stressed to get that dress changed quickly. This could explain the early cemetery comment that made no sense.


I had attributed it to her wanting to get the ball rolling, and get things over with.

Your theory is also more probable if Bridget spent more time around Lizzie on Tuesday, and Wednesday.

I suppose the pink wrapper must have been in Emma’s room closet, or at least the ribbon she was tying on.

Isn’t it amazing that today this would be such an easy case to solve.
As much as we blame the police, it actually gives me more respect for them in some ways, not all.

I think simple DNA testing on the pail of bloody rags would tell a lot, and fingerprinting was being used , but not in Fall River.