How did anyone see Ms. Borden lying on the floor while going upstairs ?

[Steve887788]

There is NO way on Earth did Ms. Churchill or anyone see Ms. Borden's body while going up the stairs. If you look at the house layout as drawn in 1893 by Mr. Kiernan the hall entrance door for the guest room had it's hinges on the left side and the door swung inward on the right. It doesn't matter if the door was closed / or partially opened. If the door was wide open then maybe.

Or you were purposely looking under the gap of the door - through underneath the bed - you will still see nothing.
I have never been there but looking at the drawing by the engineer you would be able to see a body the higher you go up. And even at that you would have to be almost to the top. Of course depending on where the door was positioned.

[leitskev]

If you ever visit the house, which I recommend if you can get there, you'll understand. In fact, one of the points of the prosecution was that Lizzie would have had to have seen the corpse if she went upstairs before Andrew came home. I don't agree with that. If you have something in your hands and are watching your step, or just daydreaming, you'll miss it. But it's somewhat...somewhat...hard to miss. The stairs are turning just as your eye reaches the level where you are looking straight at Abby under the bed. Of course, there's no way to really determine lighting. Even if the blinds were open, where exactly is the sun? Was it behind tree branches or clouds? However, certainly Churchill saw Abby when she went up. Bridget is less clear. From Churchill's testimony, she's walking BEHIND Bridget and she sees Abby first, then Bridget responds to that. Bridget doesn't really say in her testimony if Churchill saw it first, but certainly she saw it quickly right right after.

[mysterium]

I read that the police did a test the day of the murders and the defense did their own independent test at a later date. Even though the "test body" was a man taller than Abby, they both concluded the same thing. They said that walking up the stairs, the body could only be seen from one step. I guess the height of the person would determine which step that was. They also determined that the body could not be seen from the doorway into the guest room. One would need to walk into the room towards the other side of the bed to be able to see the body.

I can easily see how Lizzy could be looking down at the steps, lifting her long skirt trying not to trip going up or fussing with the stack of laundry, with the piece that she said that needed mending. Mrs Churchill and Bridget were on high alert and looking for something out of the norm when they went up the stairs.

[Steve887788]

I would tend to agree on that because although we can take a guess how tall Mrs Churchill was - you can not see the body AS you are going up only maybe at one step to the top. But I am still a little fuzzy on where that door was when they checked. How open was it ?
And you are absolutely right if Lizzie was leaving out of her door heading downstairs even if the guest room door was partially open she wouldn't be able to see abby on the floor. Unless she peeked into what seemed to be a made up empty room. She wasn't that big.

[Steve887788]

If you ever visit the house, which I recommend if you can get there

I can't take the humid weather.