While reading the book club thread(s) I was reminded about Lincoln (and other's) rude remarks about Abby's weight. At 5'4" and 200lbs wouldn't she be about a size 20 o 22?
Found @ http://www.makingitbigonline.com/
It appears to me that this woman could go where she pleased and not be confined to her home due to her weight...
Doctor Bowen initially thought Abby had fled up the stairs in fright and died when she witnessed Andrew's murder. Her personal physician therefore thought she could run...
Poor Abby.... Even after a gruesome murder she is still being denigrated due to her stepdaughter!
I think the people at that time didn't put so much emphasis on weight as others did later, as in the writers generations. I can't remember- did Lizzie herself say something about it? If so, her remarks were biased, to say the least, since she didn't like her stepmother.
Is the person in the picture 5'4" and does she weigh at least 200 lbs? I am 5'4" myself, but I only weigh about 125. I know if you are short, but weigh a great deal, it makes you look bigger.
"He who cannot put his thoughts on ice should not enter into the head of dispute." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I come by my height honestly, my mom is about the same height as me, both my grandmother and great grandmother were shorter than me,
and I have an aunt who is only 5 feet tall. There is a tendency in my family as the females get older to have problems with their weight, and I think that my grandmother would be a good example. While she is roughly the same proportions as Abby, she has no problems what so ever with getting around. As a matter of fact, her and her sister make yearly trips to Las Vegas to gamble. But by todays standards of ideal body weight, even a person considered "big boned" would have an ideal body weight of 151 lbs at 5'4".
there was just a discussion about this on tv today
(now that I don't have a "real job" i watch all this
daytime crap)..it was about large women being overweight, yet FIT. Sure I can see Abby running
to the store or up the stairs, she wasn't THAT fat.
I feel sorry for short women if they are overweight, they just can't carry too much weight, my mother and all her daughters are over 5'7 and weigh under 150, yet we are considered "big girls", I have always thought of myself as Big and envy the petite ones. I think in the Victorian era, short and petite was probably the
norm?
Audrey, that pic of the woman you posted is 66% of the female population here in Fall River. I have seen that woman at the bus stop, in the grocery store, walking on the side of S.Main street collecting cans, driving city buses, and a host of other daily goings about. I've alaways been amazed at how Abby was portrayed as this Large, obese woman who had troubles going about her business or fending off a hatchet attack because of her large size. Abby was no more larger or handicapped then a good portion of the women her today. I think that her body type was the norm somewhat for this area. Lizzie was a little plump too as was Bridget.
Precisely Mark. As I said in a previous post, 200 lbs. is not exactly the circus fat lady.
People of even greater weight can be quite mobile and agile. Perhaps they cannot do strenuous exercise for a lengthy time but that is not an issue in discussing Abby.
The subject of her weight, as far as I can remember, is only raised at her initial discovery and autopsy and had more to do with her body temperature than anything else.
With all the discussion of Abby's size over the years, the autopsy photo of the back of her head came as a surprise to me. The back of her head and neck do not look like that of an overweight person at all. In fact, they look small and vulnerable to me.
I am 5'11". When I wear pumps (which is just about every time I leave my house) I am well over 6' tall... When I was younger I HATED being taller-- Now I love it!
I can see I am, as usual--more than likely the tallest woman here...
No Allen.. I do not know if that woman is 5'4" or not-- she appears to be about medium height for a woman and I posted the photo as she wears the same size I estimated Abby would wear... And I do realize it is all relative and that each woman is different. My height is all in my legs. I have a 36" inseam.
I also agree-- that woman looks like most of the women I know. My friends, my neighbors and the women I see everywhere I go. As Mark said-- they are all over the place doing all sorts of things.
As far as fending off an attacker-- well, we all know I am a tough girl-- one who floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee.... But! I would think a woman of similar size to the one pictured could knock a hatchet out of someone's hand if she had enough time and notice to do so!
"Body that of a female, very well nourished and very fleshy 64 years of age. 5 feet, 3 inches in height. "--Dr. Dolan, Oak Grove autopsy of Abby Borden.
August 11, 1892 http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... Borden.htm
If Abby was indeed 5' 3", that puts her at about an inch shorter than Lizzie. If they were that close in height, then Abby must have actually larger around.
Granted, since Abby was older, she might not have been as strong as Lizzie. But would she still have been so afraid of her?
We know that Lizzie, Emma and Abby did not get along. We know that Abby's 1/2 sister rarely came over because the girls didn't approve of her. It seems like Mrs. Dr. Bowen came over Wednesday evening after seeing Lizzie leave. I sort of got the impression that Mrs. Dr. Bowen avoided Lizzie and waited until she left. She and Abby had a conversation, according to Jennings notes, on Tuesday about whether Lizzie was up or at home or not that morning when Abby mentioned "they" had taken her key. This tended to make it sound like Abby discussed the problem of Lizzie in the home, for she mentioned Lizzie's presence or lack of it on that Tuesday conversation- it made it sound important to Abby in some way.
I wonder if the mothers on this Forum would have found Lizzie's behavior toward Abby acceptable?
Stuart's comment about Abby being afraid of Lizzie is what had me thinking about this. Afraid of doing battle over a hatchet in self-defense- but what about being already psychologically afraid after mental abuse?
There is little defense for Emma and Lizzie's demeanor towards Abby.
The house was riddled with a competition. I wonder if Andrew subconsciously encouraged it.
His measure of worth was "net worth" and this may have made the whole property thing worse.
Most of us cannot understand why E&L got into such a tizzy about it.... But think of it this way. If you and your papa spent a lot of time together or if he had a special song, etc for you and he started giving this to his new wife-- you might not like her all that much either. To Andrew property/money was the most important thing on earth. Giving that to Abby must have been a slap in the face to the "girls". Granted, they were adult (aged) women-- or were they?
As a wife and mother I have a hard time reconciling myself to the Borden dynamics. I can not imagine letting my husband--or any man--run my family in that nature. Neither can I see myself in a "step" situation and just meekly accepting the one that was "Borden".
Of course Abby didn't have the option of divorce. Had she, she may have called the Marvin Mitchelson of Fall River and gotten herself a nice juicy divorce settlement....
I know I'm not reading the book along with you, but I know the book well enough to say that it's ESSENTIAL to Lincoln that Abby be nearly housebound. That sets up the need for Andrew to send a hack for her - in Lincoln's theory, Abby would be unable to quickly make the short walk to the bank to sign the papers.
I would not have found it acceptable. I think she was petty, self absorbed, and treated Abby poorly.