Uncle John's visit

[Richard]

Assuming Uncle John had nothing to do with the murders, he seems to have been in town to arrange for a cattle sale at Andrew's Swansea Farmhouse. I've been reading Lizzie's inquest testimony very carefully and it's very confusing about how many times John came to visit since coming back East (from Iowa?) At first she says that John came very often as he pleased, then she is pushed into a corner where she seems to contradict herself and Knowlton seems to be exploiting this. He asks, "How many times this last year has he been at your house?" and Lizzie answers, "None at all to speak of. Nothing more than a night or two at a time."

This answer is curious and seems to contradict itself. She is also contradicting her testiony that he came often, as he pleased.

Then they get into a tangled mess about what time frame she was spending time away from home. Knowlton seems to be backing her into a corner and Lizzie seems confused. But what do you think she is trying to say? He had been in MA for a year or so and came to house to visit (once, a few times?) and Lizzie had been away at various point when he was visiting. She also seems to be saying that in the time period before he came back east, he had been to the house 14 years ago (the year the river froze over, she says) but then she seems to say that it was during that time period that she was out of the house when he was visiting and that she was not away often during the past year.

Whew! I know Knowlton's questioning was harsh and Lizzie was probably doped on morphine, but does this community have any ideas about the frequency of John's visiting?

I'm sorry if this has been hashed about before (I'm relatively new here), but I'm trying to ascertain the appearance of John one day before the murders and how it fits into his visiting scheme.

When I first read about this, I was under the impression that he hadn't visited the house in 14 years and that this is was his first visit in that time, which was highly suspicious. Now I'm a little confused about how often he came down to Fall River to see them.

And does anyone know if he concluded the cattle transaction despite the fact that his brother-in-law and his b-in-l's wife was brutally murdered that day?

[Kat]

You can read Morse's inquest testimony and he will tell you when he came.

Also, there is a timeline at the web-site:

http://www.lizzieandrewborden.com/Crime ... 9-1892.htm

[FairhavenGuy]

I think some of the confusion comes from Lizzie's, Knowlton's and our own confusion about what "stay" and "away" mean.

I get the inpression that when Uncle John came East the year the river froze over, he actually lived with the Bordens. That's what Lizzie may be thinking when she says he did not stay more recently--except for a night or two. She's seems not to think of sleeping overnight as "staying."

When she refers to her own being away, that seems to mean a similar short visit, either for a day or overnight.

So for example, the day Lizzie went to Marion, Uncle John might haved visited, but she didn't know about it.

[john]

Good job Richard.
Uncle John is probably the "key."
Why would he have to get to the post office so badly as to risk a lynch mob, and other mentions and trips to the post office. I guess the reality here is that there is a lot of money at stake, and "whet we don't know, we don't know."